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I want to call this public hearing. 00:00:06
To order. 00:00:08
I'm Scott Waters. The commissioners have appointed me a hearing officer. 00:00:10
To. 00:00:15
Make a recommendation to the Commissioners regarding the establishment. 00:00:17
The Floyd County on site Wastewater District. 00:00:22
And we're going to 1st hear a presentation. 00:00:27
From the county representatives regarding. 00:00:30
The purpose? 00:00:33
Of this district. 00:00:35
And then we can hear comments from the crowd again, if you will, if you're going to speak. 00:00:37
Or if you come up to speak, please write your name and your address. 00:00:42
On the pad of paper up there with. 00:00:46
Paper provided. 00:00:48
And with that, I'm going to turn it over. 00:00:50
To Mr. Fox. 00:00:53
Thank your honor. 00:00:59
A couple brief. 00:01:02
Comments I want to make with regards to the legalities associated with. 00:01:03
The Floyd County. 00:01:07
Wastewater Management District that's being proposed. 00:01:09
And then in terms of our presentation, we have Floyd County Health Department here. 00:01:13
To make a presentation concerning the. 00:01:19
Operational aspects associated with. 00:01:24
Regarding the legal aspects. 00:01:28
Basically paired this thing down into just. 00:01:31
Three-step process the the first step. 00:01:34
Was for the county to set up. 00:01:37
For the county to set up, but. 00:01:40
On site. 00:01:43
Wastewater Management District. A notice of intent must be approved by the commissioners. 00:01:44
That notice has been approved by the Commissioners and. 00:01:51
I have sent you all the statutory notices that are required to get us to this point. 00:01:55
That we're at. 00:02:02
The Step 2 is having a hearing, which is why we're here today. 00:02:03
The purpose of the hearing is to present information about the. 00:02:08
Opposed Floyd County on site. 00:02:10
Wastewater Management District. 00:02:13
And for interested parties to comment. 00:02:15
Umm, to start with, I think it's important to know that the district is being. 00:02:19
That's being set up applies to an extremely. 00:02:26
Limited subset of. 00:02:30
Properties #1 The district only applies to a site that currently serves. 00:02:32
An existing one or two family residents. 00:02:38
And I'm going to cite some codes here for the folks that want to look it up. It's Indiana code 13-11-2 Dash. 00:02:41
144.7. 00:02:48
The district only applies to a property that has. 00:02:51
A failed septic system that can't be repaired. 00:02:54
The district only applies to a property that does not qualify for a conventional replacement system. 00:02:59
The district only applies to a property that can't reasonably be connected to a sanitary sewer. 00:03:07
And that's Indiana Code 13-18-12-9AS amended. 00:03:14
So when you take into account all these limitations. 00:03:21
That I've described that. 00:03:25
Effectively eliminates a large part of the county. 00:03:27
And what you have left are. 00:03:31
Residential homes. 00:03:34
That have a failed system. 00:03:36
That can't be, and that's a septic system that can't be repaired or replaced. 00:03:38
You can't reasonably be hooked up to a sewer system. 00:03:43
An Indiana code 13-11-2, dash 144.7. 00:03:48
Defines an on site. 00:03:54
Residential sewage discharging disposal system as using advanced treatment components. 00:03:56
Not used in standard septic systems. 00:04:04
Such as a disinfection. 00:04:07
Component that uses chlorine. 00:04:09
Ultraviolet light. 00:04:12
Are all zoned to reduce the concentration. 00:04:13
Of the pathogenic. 00:04:17
Constituents of the affluent. 00:04:19
To an acceptable level before the. 00:04:22
The fluent is discharged. 00:04:25
And anything beyond reading you the statute, I'm going to leave to the Floyd County Health Department experts to. 00:04:28
Discuss. 00:04:35
Regarding the fees, the district that's being set up would not be charging a comprehensive fee for all the homes in the district. 00:04:37
The only fees that will be charged by the district will be permit fees for the individual homes that request approval. 00:04:45
Of the on site septic system. 00:04:53
The fees have not been. 00:04:56
Have been determined at this time. 00:04:57
And that's something that the Floyd County Health Department is in the process of evaluating and. 00:05:01
They'll be coming up with. 00:05:10
Operationally, what their fees are going to be in the very near future. 00:05:12
The. 00:05:20
The next step in this process is that the judge. 00:05:21
You will. 00:05:26
Render an opinion is required by Indiana Code 36-11-3-9. 00:05:27
Sometime after this hearing. 00:05:34
Step 3 is. 00:05:38
I am currently drafting an ordinance. 00:05:42
To be on the Floyd County Commissioners docket for September 17th. 00:05:44
For consideration. 00:05:50
What you're going to see in that particular ordinance is that. 00:05:58
The Floyd County Health Department will operationally administer the program. 00:06:03
The Floyd County Health Department will. 00:06:09
Ultimately, approve the permits. 00:06:11
For the on site systems. 00:06:13
And. 00:06:16
The Floyd County Health Department board will. 00:06:17
Evaluate. 00:06:23
Those matters if. 00:06:25
For example, the Floyd County Health Department rejects the permit. 00:06:26
An appeal will be. 00:06:32
Can be made to the governing body, which is the Floyd County Commission. 00:06:33
So that's what. 00:06:39
Kind of the operationally what's going on in the ordinance at this point in time? 00:06:41
Like I said, that's. 00:06:46
It's mostly drafted but still have some aspects of the ordinance that need to be filled in. 00:06:48
And can't be filled in judge until you render an opinion. 00:06:55
Right now it's my understanding that. 00:07:00
When I talked about a limited. 00:07:03
Scope of homes involved right now. 00:07:05
I'm only aware of five to seven homes that. 00:07:08
Basically. 00:07:13
Are of the. 00:07:15
Such that they may qualify for the system. They haven't been evaluated yet. 00:07:20
Maybe after the work gets out we'll have. 00:07:24
More people that. 00:07:27
That we don't know about. 00:07:29
Will be interested in this type of. 00:07:30
System. 00:07:32
But we shall see. 00:07:34
With that being said, I'd like to turn over the presentation to the Floyd County. 00:07:38
Health Department. 00:07:42
So that they can tell us a lot more about. 00:07:43
This on site. 00:07:47
Septic system and how that works? 00:07:49
Very good. 00:07:51
And who's going to present? 00:07:56
Further. 00:07:57
Health Department. 00:08:00
Doctor Tom Harris from the Polk County Health Officer and I'll be doing part of the presentation here. 00:08:04
And Anthony Weaver will be kind of fleshed out some of the more operational details on it. 00:08:10
Some of which is Rick has already alluded to have not fully been established yet. 00:08:16
To sort of. 00:08:23
For community information. 00:08:25
We need to sort of define these systems and then talk about where we. 00:08:27
Started in where we've come to. 00:08:33
In terms of the design of the systems in their deployment. 00:08:35
So from what you see in front of you, here is the Norwegian Singular Green Advanced Aerobic treatment. 00:08:38
This is one example of these clear to start discharging systems. 00:08:45
You can see where it's set up, sort of as a three. 00:08:51
Chambered device. The size of this is roughly the size of a minivan. 00:08:54
In its most common configuration, there are bigger and smaller units. 00:08:59
That's available. 00:09:03
There are actually 9 different manufacturers that have been approved for use by the state. 00:09:04
And so this is not. 00:09:10
Be all and end all configurations. This is just more or less for a conceptual. 00:09:12
Use here. 00:09:17
So we looked at a lot of resources and we were trying to decide how to use these systems. 00:09:22
The national pollutant discharge elimination systems, or MPDS, data resources. 00:09:28
We talked to several. 00:09:34
Organizations in Ohio that had a lot of experience with these over 100 units. 00:09:36
In Claremont County in Butler County and also Hamilton County. 00:09:41
In Kentucky, we talked with the surface water permit branch environmental engineer consultant, which is a state level agency. 00:09:46
The reason for that is Kentucky Public Health is really more of a state based organization than locally based as it is. 00:09:53
And then in Indiana, we actually have discussed with. 00:10:01
Counties on site Sewerage system enforcement coordinator and assistant plan reviewer. 00:10:04
And we also talked to the feds, to the EPA. They have a ton of data resources, but the. 00:10:10
Federal government does not have any specific policies. 00:10:16
That relate directly to these systems. OSHA covers workers installing the systems. 00:10:19
And the Environmental Protection Agency does cover some hazmat type situations. 00:10:25
But there's no clear cut federal guidance on how to use these systems. 00:10:31
So historic use part of the update and passage of the current Indiana Code and MPDS discharge permit. 00:10:37
The NPDS discharge systems were only allowed in Allen County. 00:10:45
The way Allen County ran it under these programs. 00:10:51
Is not covered, however, under the new Indiana coast. Even Allen County has to change how they were doing things. 00:10:54
In any event. 00:11:01
Allen County is not a really good analog for us for a lot of reasons, including the type of systems that they had approved and 00:11:02
then also just simply their topography and geologists, really different than what we have here. 00:11:07
The Indiana code was approved in 2023. 00:11:14
And the first general permit wasn't issued until 12/1/20. 00:11:20
So we're not too far behind the power curve here. 00:11:23
Under the new. 00:11:27
Indiana code. 00:11:29
Allen County, Harrison County are the ones who have approved. 00:11:30
Commission Voicemail Commission set this up. 00:11:35
Next slide. So in general a busy slide, but the finding is is here. 00:11:38
The use of this technology has been approved statewide since 2023. If I say the first permit wasn't issued until December of last 00:11:44
year. 00:11:49
And like to emphasize has already been covered by Mr. Fox. This is a last ditch option available only with traditional on site 00:11:54
sewerage systems cannot be used. 00:11:59
This is by Indiana code. This is Apollo Local Policies by Nana code. 00:12:04
It can only be used as a rescue system for existing homes, not new construction and not commercial facilities. 00:12:09
The failure rate exists even with the new system, and it's usually due to dose, volume, bad design, or improper maintenance. 00:12:16
And unlike the traditional septic systems that most of us are familiar with. 00:12:23
Maintenance is essential for the functionality of this type of technology. 00:12:29
And operations and maintenance are no and M agreement. 00:12:33
And regular testing is required for use of this type of technology. It's an absolute essential. 00:12:36
And the health department's role is to monitor the compliance of the O&M and the. 00:12:42
The testing, The testing itself has to be done by a certified agency. It's not like. 00:12:47
Get out there with your backyard pool kit. 00:12:53
And make sure that this thing is working correctly. The testing has to be done by certified lab or a person. 00:12:56
Installer who's been trained and certified to do it. 00:13:02
The do-it-yourself servicing, we thought when we start looking at the system. 00:13:06
Be an issue. 00:13:10
But in Ohio, that was found not to be a problem most people. 00:13:11
Realize that this is a complicated thing and it has to be done by a professional and therefore they're compliant with the 00:13:15
maintenance and. 00:13:18
The other thing we're concerned about was mosquito pooling and. 00:13:23
Wastewater. I didn't address this in the original documentation. 00:13:27
And what they said is you can't really have this thing discharged over your driveway or out the front yard. It has to run to an 00:13:32
existing non protected water source. 00:13:36
And so that that issues already been addressed and in general use that doesn't seem to be. 00:13:41
Major problem. 00:13:47
The item has addressed that issue and other requirements in the general discharge. 00:13:49
And lastly, the Indiana Technical Review Panel. The TRP has the ability to modify the O network. 00:13:55
Requirements. Uh. 00:14:00
But our plan is to look at these every six months as a general concept. 00:14:02
We get information that you've maintained your contract and you fulfill the circumstances of the contract. 00:14:07
Who will keep those records? 00:14:13
We would still respond to failing systems like we do. 00:14:15
Now and sort of the reinforce the previous. 00:14:18
Things that Mister Fox said. 00:14:22
And we're looking at, you know, at this point. 00:14:24
Four to seven systems. 00:14:27
Of which 4 solidly identified. 00:14:29
That would benefit from this. 00:14:32
It it is, there's some work involved here. 00:14:34
Involved not only for the health department but also for the commissioners in terms of your approval of the systems. 00:14:38
But in some of these properties, this allows people. 00:14:43
And I'll tell her to Mr. Weaver. 00:15:07
Anthony Lieber on the environmental supervisor at the Health Department. 00:15:10
Mr. Fox, Doctor Harrison covered a lot and so I'm going to try to not be redundant. 00:15:14
Really just go over the timeline and how this would work operation operationally for us. 00:15:18
So as mentioned, is a last chance, last chance rescue system. 00:15:22
And it would be because of some sort of soil limitation. Common limitations are. 00:15:27
Improper soil conditions, insufficient lot size and improper topographical conditions. 00:15:32
So if this were that you were to be a property owner that had. 00:15:38
These issues in your potentially eligible for this system. 00:15:42
Just a generic timeline. We're still working out a lot of the process on our end. 00:15:45
But at the Floyd County Health Department, who received notification that a system is in failure. 00:15:49
The property owner would hire an installer to investigate options for replacement. 00:15:54
A representative would meet out on the site and we would explore the options. 00:15:58
It is determined that the site limitations do not allow for the conventional on site sewage system for replacement. 00:16:02
The homeowner would then need to apply for an MPDS discharge system. 00:16:08
Permit that would go before the health board and the district for approval. 00:16:12
They also will have to obtain an operating permit from the health department as a check for us to make sure. 00:16:16
That they are continuing the proper operation and maintenance. They would also be required to submit all those records to us. 00:16:22
And I, at the end of the year, will have to send those to the Indiana Department of Environmental Management. 00:16:28
So there's several different checks that we have in. 00:16:33
There to kind of make sure everything's being done properly. 00:16:36
We also did the operating permit as an additional check that. 00:16:39
Be renewed. Don't really have time frame but you know, every so many years. 00:16:43
And that's also there that if somebody were to go. 00:16:46
Into non compliance. 00:16:49
Abate the issues, the operating permit could be suspended. 00:16:52
And then they would no longer be. 00:16:55
In compliance, that would be an illicit discharge on an approved discharge. 00:16:57
And who? And first of all, let me just ask you a quick question. 00:17:02
Who's going to make the 1st? 00:17:05
Call. Is this going to be the homeowner who has talked with their installer? 00:17:07
And the installer says we can't fix it. 00:17:12
A lot of times the homeowners will say, hey, my systems in failure. 00:17:15
Reach out to an installer. They will come to us occasionally. It's a neighbor says I smell something that smells like sewage 00:17:20
coming from. 00:17:23
Neighboring property, they reported to us, we would go through the proper steps to investigate that. 00:17:26
From then we would work with the homeowner and I'm sure some of them will speak later that we've been dealing with. 00:17:31
With us to, you know, right now they just are looking at pumping their septic tank. 00:17:36
And that is very expensive. We're looking 350 to $450 per pump. 00:17:40
So if you're having to do that every thousand or 1500 gallons you're using in a month, that gets very costly very quickly. 00:17:45
Let me ask you another question So. 00:17:52
If I want to build new construction, this is not. 00:17:54
Available to me? No, as stated earlier and we can clarify that this is only for repair replacement on existing homes. 00:17:57
Not be used for new construction and that is in the Indiana. 00:18:05
So this is a last chance. 00:18:09
You know, rescue system that there's everything else has been exhausted. 00:18:11
And outside of putting undue cost and burden on the homeowner to. 00:18:14
Pay thousands of dollars, potentially a month to have all of their septic tank pumped every. 00:18:17
You know, some, some could be every five to seven days. 00:18:22
So if someone had an old system. 00:18:25
And let's say that the. 00:18:28
Municipal sewer line was extended within 300 feet of their property. 00:18:31
They still couldn't use this because they've got a hook to that 300. 00:18:37
They have to go 300 feet and connect to the sanitary sewer. 00:18:41
There is in our ordinance, as long as it does not exceed 1 1/2 times the cost of replacement system, OK. There's also in the 00:18:45
Indiana code, it would state that. 00:18:51
If there's going to be. 00:18:57
Extreme burden, cost financially to the homeowner that this could also be an option. An example being there was one home we had 00:18:58
where they're gonna have to board. They were within 300 feet. 00:19:03
They're going to have to board under commercial properties and they're gonna be like $125,000 to do that. 00:19:07
They they would then you know, I would see them as. 00:19:13
Potential payment for those cadets. 00:19:16
Very, very costly. It's costly. It used to be the cost of the house. 00:19:19
So. 00:19:22
Doctor Harris said. He said there are 4. 00:19:24
Properties currently are those people living in the home or did they have to move out of the home? 2 of them. 00:19:26
Are vacant and two of them are being. 00:19:32
Occupied. 00:19:36
Are they pumping? 00:19:37
So they have to call sanitary. 00:19:39
Truck to come out and they are they are currently since they're in violation, contracted with it. 00:19:42
A septic company or septic company to come pump it out on a regular basis. 00:19:47
And they are. 00:19:52
I know generally we. 00:19:55
We have them set up based off their water usage is how we figure out how frequently they're pumping. 00:19:56
So the only. 00:20:01
Testing our inspections that are going to be done with this program are just going to be the units that are actually installed 00:20:04
under this program. 00:20:08
Yes, in high dim in their general discharge permit has very specific testing frequencies and limits and that is required as part 00:20:13
of the operation and maintenance agreement. 00:20:18
And if they are in. 00:20:23
In violation of that, that's where we would step in with. 00:20:25
Pulling the operating permit as well as orders to abate. 00:20:27
And I mean if it got to where they were. 00:20:31
Illicitly discharging sewage. We were treated like any other home that was doing that currently. So the health department will 00:20:33
advise the applicant when they come in that not only do you pay for the application, but you're going to pay. 00:20:39
Out of your own pocket, the cost going forward? 00:20:45
None of these fees will be part of what's. 00:20:48
So as part of. 00:20:51
Taxpayers. 00:20:53
As part of our application process, we will have an information sheet we currently do for new construction and repair replacement 00:20:55
situations. 00:20:59
There will be one that talks about the MPDS discharging. 00:21:03
They will know if the burden is on them to maintain the operation of maintenance and if they don't. 00:21:06
This is what will happen. 00:21:11
Which again, it's a last chance system that you're talking about, people that are looking for a way to stay in their home and it 00:21:13
be cost effective. 00:21:16
Very good. 00:21:20
Anything else to present? 00:21:22
All right, well at this. 00:21:25
If you would be sure you stay in the in the audience because I think there'll be some questions that people from the audience will 00:21:28
want to ask. 00:21:31
Directly, and I think that'd be helpful to get some answers directly to the public right now. 00:21:35
So at this time, unless Mr. Fox, you have anything else to add. 00:21:41
We've got a list here. 00:21:47
Mr. 00:21:49
See your name first. Would you like to come up and present what? 00:21:50
I have some photographs. 00:21:54
I'd like to give you very good. This is a typical example of the limited. 00:21:57
Kind of case. 00:22:03
Or this sort of system. 00:22:05
Not only ought to be allowed, but really has to be allowed. I've brought copies for all the commissioners. 00:22:07
Anybody from the health department? 00:22:15
Idea. 00:22:19
That leaves me with six more. Would anybody else like 1? 00:22:24
Thank you. 00:22:28
Please share 1 here. 00:22:35
Sure. 00:22:36
Have one more. 00:22:40
Yeah, there we go. 00:22:47
Thank you for indulging. Absolutely. 00:22:51
You might point out for everybody else. 00:22:56
Where this is I will. 00:22:58
For the record, my name is Steve Lowmeyer. 00:23:02
I have a background in wastewater treatment, if you count 1 summer's summer job at the New Albany Wastewater Treatment Plant. 00:23:06
I have a background in commercial and residential plumbing if you count 1. Summer working for Rook Plumbing in a crew that did 00:23:13
nothing except sewer installation. 00:23:18
But for the last. 00:23:23
43 years I've been an attorney. 00:23:24
And when you're an attorney and you reach my age? 00:23:27
You do lots of wills and estates. 00:23:30
That's a sign of something I'd rather not dwell on. 00:23:33
I'm currently handling the estate of Jack Posey. 00:23:37
Jack was. 00:23:42
A sweetheart of a guy. 00:23:43
I got a photograph. I don't know why I brought it, but anyway, it was a sweetheart of a guy. 00:23:47
Who died back in January of last year. 00:23:52
His wife had died six months before him. 00:23:55
So he put me in charge of his estate. 00:23:59
He left roughly $1.5 million in investments. 00:24:05
And the house and the contents. 00:24:10
He left all of it to 4 individuals and seven charities. 00:24:13
The Salvation Army, the Animal Rescue League, First Baptist Church, Special Olympics and some others. 00:24:18
I liquidated everything in the 1st 90 days of the administration of this estate. 00:24:25
Everything except the house. 00:24:31
I can't sell the house. 00:24:35
If you look at. 00:24:38
Page 1 of the handout. It's an aerial shot. 00:24:40
Of. 00:24:44
Floyd Central High School. That's the roof of Floyd Central there at the bottom. 00:24:45
Straight across the road is Benchmark Subdivision, and I've circled Jack Posey's house at the very, very back. 00:24:50
Of benchmark. 00:24:58
If you look at the picture, you'll see a dark stripe across the back of his property. 00:25:01
That's a Creek. 00:25:08
It's known as the Yellow Fork. 00:25:09
It exits out of Mount Saint Francis to the east. 00:25:12
And then goes down and circles around the ball fields at Floyd Central. 00:25:17
The house actually sits on a bluff above and overlooking. 00:25:25
The Creek. 00:25:30
It's a lovely spot. 00:25:32
But I can't sell it. 00:25:35
Turn the page. 00:25:38
On page 2 is a picture of. 00:25:40
Jacks front yard. 00:25:43
You can tell. 00:25:46
The scale by looking at the size of the garage door and the size of the cap. 00:25:48
The front yard is about big enough to park 4, maybe 5 cars on if they're small. 00:25:53
That's all the front yard that's there. 00:25:58
Turn the page. 00:26:03
There's the view out the back. 00:26:06
Of Jack's house. 00:26:08
It's lovely in the winter, it's lovelier in the spring. 00:26:10
But if you look closely at the photograph, you'll see. 00:26:13
You're looking out into the. 00:26:16
Of those trees. 00:26:18
Turn the page. 00:26:23
That's the view of the back of the house. 00:26:25
Looking up. 00:26:28
From the Creek. 00:26:30
Like I said, the house is built. 00:26:31
On a bluff. 00:26:34
There is no. 00:26:36
Backyard. 00:26:38
As of right now, I can't sell the house because it can't be occupied. 00:26:42
It can't be occupied because it doesn't. 00:26:49
Have a working septic system. 00:26:51
When I got this estate I was informed that there was a problem with Jack Posey septic system and I hired an engineer to come in 00:26:56
and take a look at it. 00:27:00
That's when I learned that Jacks septic system doesn't have a conventional septic tank. 00:27:06
With lateral lines running out. 00:27:12
Under the yard. 00:27:15
It has a buried. 00:27:18
Aerating tank. 00:27:20
With aerobic bacteria that consume and digest organic waste. 00:27:23
These kinds of systems were specifically designed for building lots. 00:27:30
Like Jags? 00:27:34
Lots that are too small or too steep. 00:27:36
For conventional septic tanks with lateral lines. 00:27:39
They were considered safe in the day. 00:27:44
And they were perfectly legal when Jack built his house. 00:27:47
But this kind of septic system was banned. 00:27:53
By federal rules and regulations some years ago. 00:27:56
The rules and regulations didn't require folks to remove these kind of septic systems if they were already in place. 00:28:01
But the rules and regulations prohibited the installation. 00:28:09
Replacement or even the repair of these kinds of septic systems in the future. 00:28:13
The message from the EPA was. 00:28:22
When your system fails. 00:28:25
Do something else. 00:28:27
The rules and regulations didn't consider the very real possibility that there might not. 00:28:32
Be an alternative. 00:28:37
At Jack's house. 00:28:40
There is no. 00:28:41
Alternative. 00:28:43
I wasn't the first to come to this conclusion when I inherited Jack's. 00:28:47
A state case. I also inherited all of Jack's tax records and bank records and other financial records, and that's when I found out 00:28:51
Jack Septic System had failed. 00:28:56
Back in 2021. 00:29:01
I could tell from his bank records that he had spent. 00:29:04
Thousands of dollars to have engineers come out and try to figure out some kind of septic system that could be installed. 00:29:08
To replace. 00:29:18
The Buried. 00:29:20
With the aerating system and aerobic bacteria to digest. 00:29:22
Organic waste. 00:29:27
And the answer that he got from all of them was. 00:29:29
There's nothing else that you can do. 00:29:32
The front yard was too small for a conventional septic tank with lateral lines. 00:29:38
And the back of the house. 00:29:43
Hangs out over the bluff. 00:29:45
You can't hang lateral lines in the air. 00:29:48
There really isn't. 00:29:52
An alternative? 00:29:53
The proposed ordinance is designed to address those limited cases, like JAX, where they're really. 00:29:56
Isn't. 00:30:03
An alternative? 00:30:04
Jack's case isn't unique, not in the US, not in Indiana, not even in Floyd County. But. 00:30:07
Not common. 00:30:12
In the middle of last year, the EPA. 00:30:17
Finally, amended its rules and regulations to say in essence, OK, we see the problem. Sometimes there isn't an alternative. 00:30:19
And Jack's kind of septic system is better than no septic system at all. 00:30:29
I will say as an aside that I grew up on Silver Hills in the 1960s. 00:30:34
Where every house on Knob Ave. and Highland Ave. had a pipe that hung out over the hill just below the tree line. 00:30:39
You flushed your toilet on Monday and in two weeks it was W 9th St's problem. 00:30:45
That's where us kids played when I was living. 00:30:50
Lots of toads, lots of frogs, lots of never mind. You don't want to get into it. 00:30:53
That's why I'm immune to every disease known to man, I think. 00:30:56
The Fed said OK, we'll let these kind of septic systems be used. 00:31:02
If the state allows it under whatever circumstances and whatever terms and conditions the set states. 00:31:06
The state set. 00:31:14
And I figured at that point we were home free because I figured this the state would say we'll allow the replacement or repair of 00:31:17
Jack's kind of septic system. 00:31:21
When the homeowner can demonstrate, there really isn't. 00:31:27
A feasible alternative because any kind of septic system is better than no septic system. 00:31:30
Like what I grew up? 00:31:36
At the end of last year, however, the Indiana Department of Revenue. 00:31:40
Indiana Department of. 00:31:44
Environmental Management. 00:31:46
And the State Board of Health. 00:31:47
Took kind of the same approach that the EPA took. 00:31:49
And they said, you know. 00:31:52
We agree that sometimes there isn't an alternative. 00:31:54
And Jack's kind of septic system is better than no septic system. 00:31:57
So we'll allow a person to repair or replace Jack's kind of septic system. 00:32:01
If the county. 00:32:06
Allows it. 00:32:08
On whatever terms and conditions. 00:32:10
The Floyd County Health Department and the Floyd County Sewer District set. 00:32:12
And of course. 00:32:17
Therein lies the problem. 00:32:18
We don't have a Floyd County sewer district yet. 00:32:20
We're going to remedy that, I hope with your help. Thank you. 00:32:23
I tried to get an OK from the health department alone. 00:32:27
I was here some months ago making this same pitch saying Jack's lot is. 00:32:30
Too small, too steep for a conventional septic tank and lateral lines. 00:32:36
And I told them this may be your least. 00:32:42
Favorite kind of septic system? 00:32:45
But it's better than nothing. 00:32:50
You may choose. I told them to deny permits for new construction. 00:32:54
Period. 00:32:58
That's what they're going to do. 00:33:00
You may choose to deny permits. 00:33:02
Even to folks who have this kind of system, when it fails if there is. 00:33:04
Another alternative. 00:33:09
Even if it's expensive. 00:33:11
More expensive than the kind that they had. 00:33:14
But you can't deny. 00:33:17
A homeowner to replace a system that was in place before all this happened. 00:33:21
Now it's failed, and there is. 00:33:26
No feasible. 00:33:29
Alternative. 00:33:32
You've got to, OK. 00:33:37
A buried aerating septic tank with aerobic bacteria that consume and digest waste. 00:33:39
Once that system has failed. 00:33:46
When nothing else. 00:33:48
Is feasible. 00:33:50
There aren't a lot of houses that fit that description but Jack Poseys house. 00:33:52
Is the poster child for where the exception is appropriate. 00:33:56
I'm hoping we can get something and something soon so that I can sell Jack's house. 00:34:02
Or the benefit of the trustees of First Baptist Church, the Salvation Army, the Floyd County Animal Rescue League, Special 00:34:07
Olympics, the Humane Association of Clark County, and the rest of these charities. 00:34:13
Please help me. 00:34:19
As a personal representative. 00:34:21
Of the estate. 00:34:23
If you're. 00:34:24
Refused all of those options. 00:34:26
It would seem to me that your only alternative would be to demolish the home. 00:34:30
And to have a vacant lot. 00:34:36
Let it go back to. 00:34:38
The tax to the county. 00:34:40
For non payment of tax. 00:34:43
I could do that. 00:34:45
Because that's really the only alternative that would seem to be rather spiteful. I'm not a spiteful guy. 00:34:47
I can tell you we have a couple of other alternatives. 00:34:53
But they don't sound promising. 00:34:57
I could offer the house. 00:35:00
As a future vacant lot. 00:35:02
To the homeowner down the road. 00:35:05
Or the homeowner up the road. 00:35:09
And say would you like to have another quarter acre of vacant lot? 00:35:11
I don't think they take me up on it. Why would they? 00:35:18
My house when I was a kid backed up to 15 acres of woods that we didn't own. 00:35:20
And I got to enjoy the woods all my childhood. 00:35:25
Yeah, well, this is a property paying real estate tax. It is, but it won't be if that's demolished. 00:35:27
And one of the neighbors takes it over. It's going to be minimal tax, absolutely vacant law. That was very insightful, yes. 00:35:35
Just want to clarify that. 00:35:43
I had a similar situation where my advice to the client was. 00:35:45
You're going to have to let it go back. 00:35:49
To the county. 00:35:51
Because there's it can't be occupied. 00:35:53
So if you can't occupy it, then there's no reason putting any more money into the product. 00:35:56
Thank you very much. Thank you. 00:36:02
Mr. Mauser. 00:36:08
A strenuously opposed. 00:36:27
The formation of an on site septic. 00:36:29
Management District. 00:36:33
Primarily because it is neither needed. 00:36:35
Nor advantageous. 00:36:38
The Floyd County Health Department presently has the authority. 00:36:41
And the responsibility? 00:36:46
To accomplish everything. 00:36:48
That an established district. 00:36:51
Could reasonably do. 00:36:53
I do not doubt that there are on site sewage disposal systems. 00:36:56
That are failing. 00:37:01
In their intended purpose. 00:37:04
Which has solved this problem. 00:37:06
By adding layers of responsibility. 00:37:09
And her authority would author would offer nothing helpful. 00:37:12
Is the Floyd County Health Department is not fulfilling its responsibility now? 00:37:18
The Board of Floyd County Commissioners could hardly expect better performance. 00:37:24
Under their direction. 00:37:29
I have paid property taxes to Floyd County, Indiana for 66 year. 00:37:32
I had my first exposure to management of sewage disposal. 00:37:39
More than 55 years ago. 00:37:43
At a food processing plant in Pennsylvania. 00:37:46
I was assigned to write the justification for the plant to spend approximately. 00:37:50
$70,000. 00:37:55
To upgrade its treatment plan. 00:37:58
The previous practice had been. 00:38:01
For the plant manager to write a letter to the state officials. 00:38:04
Each year. 00:38:09
Explaining the good things the plant would do. 00:38:11
To stop. 00:38:14
The pollution of tiny. 00:38:15
Herkimen Creek. 00:38:18
The plant manager had known Pennsylvania would not shut down a plant. 00:38:21
With 500 full time employees. 00:38:26
But it was time to actually do something. 00:38:29
I relate this ancient history. 00:38:33
To indicate that I am not new. 00:38:36
To observing responsible people. 00:38:39
Being irresponsible. 00:38:42
Or even dishonest. 00:38:44
The purpose for forming a district is not apparent. 00:38:47
#4. 00:38:52
Notice of Intent states. 00:38:54
The district will serve a territory. 00:38:57
Within Floyd County, Indiana. 00:39:00
Consisting of the unincorporated. 00:39:03
Area. 00:39:07
In Floyd County. 00:39:08
Greenville and Georgetown. 00:39:10
There is no unincorporated area in Greenville. 00:39:13
Or Georgetown. 00:39:18
#5 of this notice of intent says. 00:39:20
In quotation mark. 00:39:25
The plan for financing the ongoing operation. 00:39:27
Of the district will be solely. 00:39:31
By charging unit users. 00:39:34
For an operating permit. 00:39:37
End of quotation. 00:39:40
It is not explained whether this permit will be renewed. 00:39:43
Annually or who will be charged? 00:39:47
Number six conflicts directly with #5. 00:39:52
#7. 00:39:57
Allows any application. 00:39:59
And fit. 00:40:01
By the management district executive body. 00:40:05
Which shall be defined. 00:40:09
As the Florida County Commissioners. 00:40:12
Lastly #8 states. 00:40:16
This action action. 00:40:19
Shall grant the authority. 00:40:21
For enforcement and complete compliance of X. 00:40:23
Set forth by the district. 00:40:29
To the Floyd County Health Department. 00:40:32
This proposed district. 00:40:36
Is pursuant to IC. 00:40:39
36-11-3. 00:40:41
Section 4. 00:40:45
D of this code. 00:40:48
Refers to any. 00:40:50
Position against the establishment. 00:40:52
Of the district. 00:40:55
District 14. 00:40:57
D1. 00:41:00
And two. 00:41:03
Continues by stating. 00:41:04
That the decision by the Commissioners regarding any potential. 00:41:07
Or any petition. 00:41:11
Is final. 00:41:14
This makes any and all resistance to establishment. 00:41:16
Of a district. 00:41:21
Totally. 00:41:22
Cute. 00:41:23
I presume this is your written objection. 00:41:34
That the statute. Well, I appreciate that. 00:41:36
Next, Jeff Reinhart. 00:41:46
The little map background. 00:42:00
Is about 50 years in safety and environmental industry. 00:42:03
Everyone has waste treatment plants. 00:42:07
Regular stormwater permits and so forth. 00:42:10
I don't have a problem. 00:42:12
As presented. 00:42:14
These systems should work great for. 00:42:16
Rescue. 00:42:18
I just don't want the ordinance to be. 00:42:20
The first step. 00:42:22
In county wide sewers. 00:42:24
We're too rural for that. 00:42:25
Cost to be too high. 00:42:27
For all the homeowners. 00:42:28
My little St. 00:42:31
7/10 of a mile long has 13 residences and most of us have more than 3 or 400 feet of frontage. 00:42:33
So the cost to install regular sewers would be unbelievable. 00:42:41
If it's a rescue system and that's what they're doing. 00:42:46
That's one thing if it's a first step. 00:42:49
And they use that as a stepping stone into quite wide. 00:42:51
Our countrywide sewer systems. 00:42:56
Hardly approached. 00:42:59
Understood. 00:43:02
Appreciate that. 00:43:03
I don't believe it is, but if it is. 00:43:05
There'll have to be another public hearing and a whole nother process to go through. 00:43:08
So. 00:43:13
Weird. This is only focused on rescue. 00:43:15
And systems that have failed. 00:43:19
And again as you heard the first example. 00:43:22
There's a home that can't be sold. 00:43:25
And that that's. 00:43:28
Ineffective taking of the property. 00:43:30
So that's unjust to to not provide for someone to be able to use the property that they built. 00:43:32
And that was my point about. 00:43:39
Tearing the home down. There's a significant cost to tearing it down. 00:43:42
And trying to sell a vacant lot to one of the neighbors. No one's going to buy a vacant lot. 00:43:46
The best they could do would be granted to the Floyd County Parks Department to use as a park. 00:43:52
So you know. 00:43:58
Then they won't accept that. So it's it's really a problem. But in any event, thank you for your comments. How about Christy 00:44:00
Murphy? 00:44:04
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to. 00:44:16
Sure, my husband and I. 00:44:18
We grew up in Floyd County. We looked at our whole lives and. 00:44:23
We always wanted to move the flights knobs and we are one of those fortunate people, the one of two that have that house. 00:44:27
That we're living in, where we have to have the tank pumped every month. 00:44:34
We have a similar. 00:44:38
Property as a Mr. Posey. 00:44:39
Where very steep incline, very small lot, which is why that system was installed in the 1st place when the house was built. 00:44:42
And when we bought the house, we had it inspected but. 00:44:51
I've never had a septic system. I didn't realize that the inspector didn't check that. 00:44:56
And it was shortly after we moved in that we realized that the septic system or the system that we had. 00:44:59
Wasn't working. When did you buy the home? I'm sorry, 2017. 00:45:06
Was it 2017 or 2018? 00:45:12
18 Sorry. 00:45:14
And I went through all the steps that he went through. I even reached out to Moreco and asked them like, what can we do to fix the 00:45:17
system that we have? 00:45:22
I had one of those little. 00:45:27
Beat her things installed. 00:45:29
There's no filter in this system anymore, so it doesn't do anything. 00:45:30
But you know. 00:45:34
The risers that were on the system originally removed. 00:45:38
When we bought the house and it was filled with gravel. 00:45:41
And the previous owner didn't have any. 00:45:44
Permits for the driveway that he put in for the deck. 00:45:47
He knew that the system was. 00:45:50
Not working. 00:45:52
And that there was number alternative to replace it. And I think this is something that nobody's mentioned yet. 00:45:53
When people find out that they have no alternative, they're going to hide. 00:45:59
They're gonna do everything that they can to stay below the radar. 00:46:02
And they're going to continue dumping that waste into the Creek behind their house, which was what was happening for us. 00:46:05
When we had the pipe finally burst and underneath our driveway was coming up and we called. 00:46:13
Checkers and. 00:46:20
Then they came out and did a soil test. That's when we found out that there was an alternative that. 00:46:23
There's no room for our traditional septic system. There's no way we could get sewers too far out. We even went to our neighbors 00:46:27
to see if they would give us an easement. 00:46:31
For lateral lines and they declined that so. 00:46:37
Basically overnight we found that our house. 00:46:40
Worthless. 00:46:43
Everything that we have. 00:46:44
Is in our house, we have no. 00:46:46
So far we spent. 00:46:53
About $9000 just. 00:46:55
To have the tank pumped. 00:46:58
You know, they come out twice a month. We have four of us living in the house. 00:47:00
They come out and pump it, which costs 275 each time. 00:47:05
And then I'm sending laundry out to my stepdaughter. 00:47:09
Because I'd rather her have the money. 00:47:12
Because we can't run the washer, we can't flush our toilet. Except. 00:47:14
For emergencies, you know. 00:47:18
We're we're basically not even really living in our house. 00:47:20
But we have no alternative. 00:47:24
We have nowhere to go. 00:47:26
We'd have to file for bankruptcy and we lose everything. 00:47:27
And I know. 00:47:33
But there's risk with these systems. That's where there's a lot of maintenance. 00:47:34
But we would do anything. 00:47:38
They have an option. 00:47:40
And you know. 00:47:42
That our system is draining into the Creek that ran it goes right down to letting Walter Park. 00:47:46
Kids play in the Creek. 00:47:51
And I know that there are other houses like this that have the same system and if they don't have any alternative. 00:47:52
You're just, they're just going to let it keep happening. 00:47:58
And. 00:48:01
You know I would more than gladly. 00:48:03
Sign an agreement saying that we'll have inspected every. 00:48:06
Every, I think it was once every six months, you know, and pay for that just so that we could live in our house. 00:48:10
And have our savings back. 00:48:16
Well, thank you for stepping up and telling us your story. 00:48:22
Appreciate that. Appreciate it. 00:48:25
Dale, Man. 00:48:29
No tail man, Georgetown. 00:48:37
Presentation day has been pretty good. 00:48:40
Thanks for the educational. 00:48:42
The only problem that I see, I don't know where it says in the statute. 00:48:44
That you have to form a district. 00:48:48
I think it says you may or you shall. 00:48:50
In the district is another form of governance, another layer of government. 00:48:53
You go to Commissioner, that's another layer. 00:48:58
And that's what people are opposed to. 00:49:01
And it is. A lot of people think it's a. 00:49:04
Prelude to forest on sewer system. 00:49:06
And but the President's Day was good. 00:49:10
And it was education. Thank you for that. 00:49:13
Thank you, Dale. 00:49:17
Doctor Harris, do you want to? 00:49:21
Is the health department want to comment on on that? 00:49:24
The issue of because I think you said that the. 00:49:27
State said if the county. 00:49:30
Will authorize. 00:49:32
Then then it can be done. But if the. 00:49:35
Local, county, district. 00:49:39
That's created, doesn't approve it, then you're not going to be able. The health department's has their hands tied. 00:49:41
And really can't do anything. 00:49:47
That's that's your understanding. 00:49:50
So the state code does say that in order to. 00:49:56
Do a NPDES discharge and I believe it's IC 13. 00:49:59
That states you have to do it within a. 00:50:05
On site wastewater management district. 00:50:08
So the district is the only way that we can. 00:50:11
They can then delegate authority to us. 00:50:13
To start doing this and it is a rescue system. 00:50:16
For existing homes, not for new construction. 00:50:19
And like like I said previously. 00:50:22
Have to check off all the boxes like that's part of what the state code says as well, that we've done our investigation and the 00:50:24
traditional style that's approved. 00:50:28
Will not work or not go into this site as several homeowners have stated they have. 00:50:32
They have sites where the topography or the soil, you know, won't allow it. And I've been to both of the sites that the homeowners 00:50:36
talked about. 00:50:40
And the. 00:50:44
The state license or permit that you're talking about was what? 00:50:46
Mr. Fox filed with the state Department of Environmental Management. 00:50:52
Notice of intent to form the district. 00:50:56
To obtain this license. 00:50:59
And in that it says that talking about systems that have. 00:51:02
Been installed to repair or replace a sewage disposal system that failed. 00:51:07
To meet public health and environmental standards. 00:51:12
And then of course, technology and economic hardship analysis has to be involved, so. 00:51:15
Again, it's a very limited purpose for which this. 00:51:20
Permit would be. 00:51:24
Allowed from the state to allow. 00:51:25
The health Department. 00:51:27
Grant permission assuming that the county. 00:51:29
District authorized that. 00:51:32
In fact, yeah, Indiana code that this is a rescue system. 00:51:35
That can only be used. 00:51:39
Other options? 00:51:41
Either not feasible or have already been. 00:51:42
Awesome. So it's actually written into the Indiana code that this is clearly a rescue system. 00:51:44
There is nothing inherent in the system that. 00:51:51
Even vaguely mentions or approaches rural sewers. 00:51:55
Or requiring A sewer district. 00:51:58
This is clearly a setup for people. 00:52:02
That we might actually use their homes. 00:52:04
Or their capital if they aren't allowed to use the systems that. 00:52:06
Residents very good. Thank you Again, Permanent discharge is only allowed. 00:52:11
With the formation of the district and that is in the code that they approved. Thank you for that clarification. 00:52:15
Melissa Zink. 00:52:24
Hello. Hi, good afternoon. I want to speak in. 00:52:33
Favor of forming this district. 00:52:37
I am like this other with another homeowner that. 00:52:40
I bought a property as an investment. 00:52:45
And. 00:52:47
Filed all my permits that I needed to do the to do the repairs on it and. 00:52:49
Quite quickly found out that the system had something like. 00:52:56
Mr. Posey's had was a system that was designed specifically for that lot way back in the day. 00:53:00
And we called some licensed inspectors out to repair it, whatever and. 00:53:05
They say a no go. 00:53:11
Have had the health department, the state health board. 00:53:14
I think even Doctor Harris. 00:53:18
Two or three different. 00:53:20
Septic installers and out my property. I've had soil samples done so yet again I've spent thousands of dollars. 00:53:21
And still have no. 00:53:28
Viable. 00:53:30
Solution to the problem. 00:53:32
And this would be a great. 00:53:34
Benefit to me because right now I have. 00:53:37
A fairly large sum of money just sitting there in the hole in the ground. What's the address of that? 00:53:40
That's over on Bud Rd. 00:53:46
So is that 3273? OK, That's where you're living. 00:53:48
No, it's an investment property. 00:53:53
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't. I thought you was running. 00:53:56
No, I live in Lanesville. 00:53:59
Just outside well in Floyd County, but the Lanesville area. 00:54:02
But that's I thought they wanted the property address, right? No, that's good. Yeah, that's the property address. I had purchased 00:54:06
it as an investment. 00:54:10
Again trying to. 00:54:14
Sure. 00:54:17
Have something for retirement stuff. 00:54:18
And soon found out. 00:54:21
Quite quickly like you all did that. 00:54:24
It was. 00:54:28
Not operable. So now we have repurchased that actually back in 2019. 00:54:29
And we have been paying for it, paying property taxes on it every year, which is about $3000 a year, because it's not my personal 00:54:34
residence and I can't take any homestead deductions and such. So it's. 00:54:40
It's quite a large expense that we have sitting there. So this would be a great. 00:54:46
Opportunity. I went with a couple of the. 00:54:50
Installers up to the Indiana. 00:54:54
Senators and stuff to. 00:54:59
Testify. 00:55:01
When the original bill was sent out and helped them. 00:55:03
To get this into our area it is needed. 00:55:06
And like it is, it's a rescue. 00:55:09
Nobody wants this. I would love to have a regular system put in. I could have been done with this, you know, two years, three 00:55:11
years ago. 00:55:14
But here I'm just sitting here in a holding pattern. 00:55:17
Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Appreciate. 00:55:20
And Donnie Cobert. 00:55:23
Donna, I'm sorry. 00:55:27
You know. 00:55:29
All right. Thank you. 00:55:31
Yes, Sir. 00:55:34
I ride the government state, come on up, just jump. 00:55:35
Tell me your name. 00:55:38
Joseph Moore. 00:55:39
Right now I use old man. 00:55:44
That's OK Where do you live, Joseph? 00:55:45
Georgetown. 00:55:52
First of all, thank you. 00:55:54
And I'd like to extend my sympathies to these folks. 00:55:56
I've been involved in cases where people got hosed on real estate deals that. 00:55:59
They really should not be left out in the cold. 00:56:03
And have to eat all this themselves. 00:56:05
My apologies but missed. 00:56:08
And a couple minutes late. So if I something was said I'm asking about I apologize, but I'm. 00:56:10
Yet is it not? Am I correct in my understanding that? 00:56:16
In order for this. 00:56:20
Remedy to be approved, there has to be. 00:56:23
A district established, is that correct? That's correct. OK, So this shell OK. 00:56:25
The since there are so few of these occurrences, I mean. 00:56:31
I'm in favor of these folks getting relief. 00:56:36
Whether it's the estate? 00:56:38
Or just honest homeowners that got hosed on these deals? 00:56:40
Which, you know, poop happens, so let's. 00:56:43
It might. It's going to happen in the future. 00:56:47
So. 00:56:50
My concerns are this. 00:56:51
I'm also not a fan of. 00:56:54
Additional bureaucracy. 00:56:56
I don't think this is an insidious plot to. 00:56:59
Force everyone on the public. 00:57:02
I think that under these circumstances, it will be limited to those. 00:57:05
Few cases where it's absolutely necessary. 00:57:08
But the. 00:57:11
My concern is. 00:57:13
How big? 00:57:15
Of a bureaucracy. 00:57:16
Do we need would it be 1 employee with our health department? No, no employees there. There was a misunderstanding in the 00:57:18
newspaper by someone that wrote a letter to the editor. 00:57:23
And there it's all going to be delegated to the health department. The health department's attempting to do the job now they don't 00:57:30
have the tools. 00:57:34
To do the job. 00:57:38
So they don't have the tools to do the job, you can't do the job, and what they need is. 00:57:40
The authority that the state says, yes you can use this exception, but you got to have the district to do it. 00:57:46
And from what I've been explained with a stack of paper that I I have. 00:57:53
That, uh. 00:57:59
What is intended is for these failed systems. 00:58:00
So that the people that have the failed system will have that choice. 00:58:04
So, uh. 00:58:08
Mr. Lomire will have the choice once he figures out. 00:58:09
The health department figures this all out and says OK. 00:58:13
Here's what it's going to cost you. 00:58:16
To fix it. 00:58:18
So he'll have a choice. 00:58:19
Like every other property owner to either tear down the home. 00:58:21
And leave a vacant lot. 00:58:26
And then figure out. 00:58:28
To let it go back to the state or deed it to the kids and give them a problem. 00:58:29
Or something with that property. 00:58:34
Or they'll have to pay that amount to keep that going. 00:58:36
And it's it's just like anybody in the county, if you want to go out in the county and enjoy the beautiful countryside. 00:58:40
And try to avoid. 00:58:47
The taxes in a municipality that has a sewer. 00:58:48
That's great, but now you have the cost of taking care of the septic system to ensure that it's sanitary and safe for you. 00:58:52
More importantly, your neighbors. 00:59:00
So, you know, it's a choice that we all make. I understand all that. I mean, I heard the presentations and I. 00:59:02
Agreed. Umm, uh. 00:59:09
So basically I'm hearing that. 00:59:11
Mr. Little Meyer and his employees were just somebody wearing a different hat. It wouldn't be a new person, right? 00:59:12
Basically just. 00:59:19
Doctor Harris and his staff and the health department. 00:59:20
We already are doing a lot of the work. They have these same requests. There's a form that they have for applications, they'll 00:59:24
have a second form. 00:59:28
And it will only be for these failed systems. 00:59:33
And yes, they're going to have. 00:59:36
Operational problems. We can all imagine that there will be plenty of people saying. 00:59:38
I want that system even though I got a system in checker and these other experts say no you can repair this. 00:59:42
They're going to say, well, I don't want that. I want this new system. 00:59:51
And the health department's not going to have authority under the ordinance and if. 00:59:55
They trying to get political clout to change all this. 01:00:01
They're going to be back with the county commissioners requesting another hearing. 01:00:05
For a new ordinance to extend the district. 01:00:09
In its function and scope, it's very very limited. 01:00:13
I do understand this. Again my question was. 01:00:16
Are we adding more people who said no, that's fine. 01:00:20
And I understand that the cost. 01:00:23
Would be borne by the homeowner. 01:00:25
Not the taxpayers. 01:00:28
Understand this correctly. 01:00:31
The establishment of this district. 01:00:33
I won't call it superficial. 01:00:35
But it won't increase cost the taxpayers. 01:00:37
Since the occurrence is so rare and it would be kept in house. 01:00:40
But the health Department? 01:00:43
I if that's the. 01:00:45
Speaking with Harrison County if it's a cost, but. 01:00:50
If it's not increased cost. 01:00:55
I don't see any objection to it. 01:00:57
If it's not more bureaucracy at. 01:00:58
A pipeline to public sewers. 01:01:01
We're burning the taxpayers. 01:01:04
I don't see who could object them. 01:01:06
And these folks need relief and. 01:01:08
Like he said, this is the last chance thing. This is that. 01:01:10
And I'm sure it won't be. 01:01:13
Really approved it sounds like. 01:01:15
These folks know it's for a desperate no alternative situation. 01:01:17
So. 01:01:21
Thank you. 01:01:22
Does anyone else want to speak? 01:01:25
For or against? 01:01:26
Yes, ma'am. 01:01:30
A question at this point in time. 01:01:31
What's the cost of this system? 01:01:34
We know. 01:01:36
I'm here 'cause I did the research I was seeing from 25 to 32,000 to install. 01:01:39
And at least $2000. 01:01:43
That's what an installer here. 01:01:47
Yes, Sir, back here in the corner. 01:01:54
My name is Joseph Thomas. 01:02:06
I live on clay court right off of Luther Rd. 01:02:09
I live on. 01:02:12
I've got about 3 to 4 feet of land. 01:02:14
Where my old labels are. 01:02:17
It's in process. 01:02:19
Of feeling nothing. 01:02:22
Feel good. It's in the process of feeling. 01:02:23
And for the sake of the women. 01:02:26
Audience. 01:02:28
There's been a couple days where I have particularly. 01:02:30
French bath. 01:02:32
And for you don't know what that is. 01:02:34
That means washing your. 01:02:36
Every other day. 01:02:39
Or two or three, maybe four days. 01:02:41
And also. 01:02:43
Not being able. 01:02:44
Wash your dishes, your clothes. 01:02:46
I'm not in favor. 01:02:48
Other district or against it? I don't. I have no idea. 01:02:49
But like Murphy's. 01:02:54
The other couples in here. 01:02:56
Are having trouble. 01:02:58
It should be to that individuals. 01:03:00
Choice as to what they won't put in. 01:03:02
I have had. 01:03:05
This a estimate on these. 01:03:07
It would cost me anywhere from 50 to $60,000. 01:03:09
Put this system in. 01:03:13
To replace the hole. 01:03:16
Septic system which doesn't need it. 01:03:17
When I did have it. 01:03:20
That's insane way just to. 01:03:22
Compare going to cost between 30 and 40,000 dollars. 01:03:24
So for the people do not have it. 01:03:30
The option. 01:03:33
This is what I think is a good opportunity for them. 01:03:35
Them I would personally volunteer as a. 01:03:37
To have somebody. 01:03:41
Do it. I would do it myself. 01:03:42
Not situation. 01:03:45
Mr. Goldwire, I know. 01:03:46
Jack Foley's personally. 01:03:48
I'll have to disagree with what kind of level. 01:03:51
He was my supervisor. 01:03:55
But. 01:04:00
Jack, I know. Jack I've known him for. 01:04:01
Well, I didn't know. 01:04:05
Said he was my supervisor and he was an engineer. 01:04:07
He was a licensed engineer. 01:04:12
And if he couldn't figure it out? 01:04:14
These other people can't figure it out either. 01:04:17
I've had the health department out and they've been very helpful to me and I appreciate their help. 01:04:20
That there should be left up to the individual. 01:04:27
I don't have any acres or 50 acres. 01:04:30
When it feels you can run it out. Fertilize my fields. 01:04:33
Oh, I got it. I got an 80 about 100 and. 01:04:36
I think 180. 01:04:38
It's 80 by 140 foot lot. 01:04:40
And there's six houses on my street. 01:04:44
There's about two acres of land there and they're all in the same thing. 01:04:47
Rock maybe 3 or 4 feet. 01:04:51
No, not. It's not even the ground. 01:04:54
It's filled. 01:04:57
Clay, Clay. 01:04:58
And it is getting saturated. 01:05:00
And I have. I'm in process now. 01:05:02
But doing something about it, which was approved by the health department. 01:05:05
Which I appreciate. 01:05:09
That's so it's not for or against. 01:05:11
But I do think it should be up to the individual. 01:05:15
The state has already approved it. 01:05:18
For statewide. 01:05:20
I see no reason why an individual candidate. 01:05:22
Cannot get. 01:05:24
Or a path. Thank you. 01:05:26
Thank you. 01:05:28
Andy Bond, Else. 01:05:32
Like to speak. 01:05:34
Well, seeing no. 01:05:37
Other. 01:05:39
Questions. 01:05:40
Yes. 01:05:42
Oh, get your. 01:05:45
Very good. 01:05:47
Hearing no other responses, I'll prepare my. 01:05:49
Findings and recommendations and present those to the Commissioners. 01:05:54
Appreciate each of you coming out today to talk about this. It's good to have a public. 01:05:58
Hearing and hear all the different thoughts and this will be encouraging. 01:06:03
I think to all those involved. 01:06:07
To see that we can work together to get these things accomplished. So thank you very much. We're adjourned. 01:06:10
Bye. 01:06:20
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Transcript
I want to call this public hearing. 00:00:06
To order. 00:00:08
I'm Scott Waters. The commissioners have appointed me a hearing officer. 00:00:10
To. 00:00:15
Make a recommendation to the Commissioners regarding the establishment. 00:00:17
The Floyd County on site Wastewater District. 00:00:22
And we're going to 1st hear a presentation. 00:00:27
From the county representatives regarding. 00:00:30
The purpose? 00:00:33
Of this district. 00:00:35
And then we can hear comments from the crowd again, if you will, if you're going to speak. 00:00:37
Or if you come up to speak, please write your name and your address. 00:00:42
On the pad of paper up there with. 00:00:46
Paper provided. 00:00:48
And with that, I'm going to turn it over. 00:00:50
To Mr. Fox. 00:00:53
Thank your honor. 00:00:59
A couple brief. 00:01:02
Comments I want to make with regards to the legalities associated with. 00:01:03
The Floyd County. 00:01:07
Wastewater Management District that's being proposed. 00:01:09
And then in terms of our presentation, we have Floyd County Health Department here. 00:01:13
To make a presentation concerning the. 00:01:19
Operational aspects associated with. 00:01:24
Regarding the legal aspects. 00:01:28
Basically paired this thing down into just. 00:01:31
Three-step process the the first step. 00:01:34
Was for the county to set up. 00:01:37
For the county to set up, but. 00:01:40
On site. 00:01:43
Wastewater Management District. A notice of intent must be approved by the commissioners. 00:01:44
That notice has been approved by the Commissioners and. 00:01:51
I have sent you all the statutory notices that are required to get us to this point. 00:01:55
That we're at. 00:02:02
The Step 2 is having a hearing, which is why we're here today. 00:02:03
The purpose of the hearing is to present information about the. 00:02:08
Opposed Floyd County on site. 00:02:10
Wastewater Management District. 00:02:13
And for interested parties to comment. 00:02:15
Umm, to start with, I think it's important to know that the district is being. 00:02:19
That's being set up applies to an extremely. 00:02:26
Limited subset of. 00:02:30
Properties #1 The district only applies to a site that currently serves. 00:02:32
An existing one or two family residents. 00:02:38
And I'm going to cite some codes here for the folks that want to look it up. It's Indiana code 13-11-2 Dash. 00:02:41
144.7. 00:02:48
The district only applies to a property that has. 00:02:51
A failed septic system that can't be repaired. 00:02:54
The district only applies to a property that does not qualify for a conventional replacement system. 00:02:59
The district only applies to a property that can't reasonably be connected to a sanitary sewer. 00:03:07
And that's Indiana Code 13-18-12-9AS amended. 00:03:14
So when you take into account all these limitations. 00:03:21
That I've described that. 00:03:25
Effectively eliminates a large part of the county. 00:03:27
And what you have left are. 00:03:31
Residential homes. 00:03:34
That have a failed system. 00:03:36
That can't be, and that's a septic system that can't be repaired or replaced. 00:03:38
You can't reasonably be hooked up to a sewer system. 00:03:43
An Indiana code 13-11-2, dash 144.7. 00:03:48
Defines an on site. 00:03:54
Residential sewage discharging disposal system as using advanced treatment components. 00:03:56
Not used in standard septic systems. 00:04:04
Such as a disinfection. 00:04:07
Component that uses chlorine. 00:04:09
Ultraviolet light. 00:04:12
Are all zoned to reduce the concentration. 00:04:13
Of the pathogenic. 00:04:17
Constituents of the affluent. 00:04:19
To an acceptable level before the. 00:04:22
The fluent is discharged. 00:04:25
And anything beyond reading you the statute, I'm going to leave to the Floyd County Health Department experts to. 00:04:28
Discuss. 00:04:35
Regarding the fees, the district that's being set up would not be charging a comprehensive fee for all the homes in the district. 00:04:37
The only fees that will be charged by the district will be permit fees for the individual homes that request approval. 00:04:45
Of the on site septic system. 00:04:53
The fees have not been. 00:04:56
Have been determined at this time. 00:04:57
And that's something that the Floyd County Health Department is in the process of evaluating and. 00:05:01
They'll be coming up with. 00:05:10
Operationally, what their fees are going to be in the very near future. 00:05:12
The. 00:05:20
The next step in this process is that the judge. 00:05:21
You will. 00:05:26
Render an opinion is required by Indiana Code 36-11-3-9. 00:05:27
Sometime after this hearing. 00:05:34
Step 3 is. 00:05:38
I am currently drafting an ordinance. 00:05:42
To be on the Floyd County Commissioners docket for September 17th. 00:05:44
For consideration. 00:05:50
What you're going to see in that particular ordinance is that. 00:05:58
The Floyd County Health Department will operationally administer the program. 00:06:03
The Floyd County Health Department will. 00:06:09
Ultimately, approve the permits. 00:06:11
For the on site systems. 00:06:13
And. 00:06:16
The Floyd County Health Department board will. 00:06:17
Evaluate. 00:06:23
Those matters if. 00:06:25
For example, the Floyd County Health Department rejects the permit. 00:06:26
An appeal will be. 00:06:32
Can be made to the governing body, which is the Floyd County Commission. 00:06:33
So that's what. 00:06:39
Kind of the operationally what's going on in the ordinance at this point in time? 00:06:41
Like I said, that's. 00:06:46
It's mostly drafted but still have some aspects of the ordinance that need to be filled in. 00:06:48
And can't be filled in judge until you render an opinion. 00:06:55
Right now it's my understanding that. 00:07:00
When I talked about a limited. 00:07:03
Scope of homes involved right now. 00:07:05
I'm only aware of five to seven homes that. 00:07:08
Basically. 00:07:13
Are of the. 00:07:15
Such that they may qualify for the system. They haven't been evaluated yet. 00:07:20
Maybe after the work gets out we'll have. 00:07:24
More people that. 00:07:27
That we don't know about. 00:07:29
Will be interested in this type of. 00:07:30
System. 00:07:32
But we shall see. 00:07:34
With that being said, I'd like to turn over the presentation to the Floyd County. 00:07:38
Health Department. 00:07:42
So that they can tell us a lot more about. 00:07:43
This on site. 00:07:47
Septic system and how that works? 00:07:49
Very good. 00:07:51
And who's going to present? 00:07:56
Further. 00:07:57
Health Department. 00:08:00
Doctor Tom Harris from the Polk County Health Officer and I'll be doing part of the presentation here. 00:08:04
And Anthony Weaver will be kind of fleshed out some of the more operational details on it. 00:08:10
Some of which is Rick has already alluded to have not fully been established yet. 00:08:16
To sort of. 00:08:23
For community information. 00:08:25
We need to sort of define these systems and then talk about where we. 00:08:27
Started in where we've come to. 00:08:33
In terms of the design of the systems in their deployment. 00:08:35
So from what you see in front of you, here is the Norwegian Singular Green Advanced Aerobic treatment. 00:08:38
This is one example of these clear to start discharging systems. 00:08:45
You can see where it's set up, sort of as a three. 00:08:51
Chambered device. The size of this is roughly the size of a minivan. 00:08:54
In its most common configuration, there are bigger and smaller units. 00:08:59
That's available. 00:09:03
There are actually 9 different manufacturers that have been approved for use by the state. 00:09:04
And so this is not. 00:09:10
Be all and end all configurations. This is just more or less for a conceptual. 00:09:12
Use here. 00:09:17
So we looked at a lot of resources and we were trying to decide how to use these systems. 00:09:22
The national pollutant discharge elimination systems, or MPDS, data resources. 00:09:28
We talked to several. 00:09:34
Organizations in Ohio that had a lot of experience with these over 100 units. 00:09:36
In Claremont County in Butler County and also Hamilton County. 00:09:41
In Kentucky, we talked with the surface water permit branch environmental engineer consultant, which is a state level agency. 00:09:46
The reason for that is Kentucky Public Health is really more of a state based organization than locally based as it is. 00:09:53
And then in Indiana, we actually have discussed with. 00:10:01
Counties on site Sewerage system enforcement coordinator and assistant plan reviewer. 00:10:04
And we also talked to the feds, to the EPA. They have a ton of data resources, but the. 00:10:10
Federal government does not have any specific policies. 00:10:16
That relate directly to these systems. OSHA covers workers installing the systems. 00:10:19
And the Environmental Protection Agency does cover some hazmat type situations. 00:10:25
But there's no clear cut federal guidance on how to use these systems. 00:10:31
So historic use part of the update and passage of the current Indiana Code and MPDS discharge permit. 00:10:37
The NPDS discharge systems were only allowed in Allen County. 00:10:45
The way Allen County ran it under these programs. 00:10:51
Is not covered, however, under the new Indiana coast. Even Allen County has to change how they were doing things. 00:10:54
In any event. 00:11:01
Allen County is not a really good analog for us for a lot of reasons, including the type of systems that they had approved and 00:11:02
then also just simply their topography and geologists, really different than what we have here. 00:11:07
The Indiana code was approved in 2023. 00:11:14
And the first general permit wasn't issued until 12/1/20. 00:11:20
So we're not too far behind the power curve here. 00:11:23
Under the new. 00:11:27
Indiana code. 00:11:29
Allen County, Harrison County are the ones who have approved. 00:11:30
Commission Voicemail Commission set this up. 00:11:35
Next slide. So in general a busy slide, but the finding is is here. 00:11:38
The use of this technology has been approved statewide since 2023. If I say the first permit wasn't issued until December of last 00:11:44
year. 00:11:49
And like to emphasize has already been covered by Mr. Fox. This is a last ditch option available only with traditional on site 00:11:54
sewerage systems cannot be used. 00:11:59
This is by Indiana code. This is Apollo Local Policies by Nana code. 00:12:04
It can only be used as a rescue system for existing homes, not new construction and not commercial facilities. 00:12:09
The failure rate exists even with the new system, and it's usually due to dose, volume, bad design, or improper maintenance. 00:12:16
And unlike the traditional septic systems that most of us are familiar with. 00:12:23
Maintenance is essential for the functionality of this type of technology. 00:12:29
And operations and maintenance are no and M agreement. 00:12:33
And regular testing is required for use of this type of technology. It's an absolute essential. 00:12:36
And the health department's role is to monitor the compliance of the O&M and the. 00:12:42
The testing, The testing itself has to be done by a certified agency. It's not like. 00:12:47
Get out there with your backyard pool kit. 00:12:53
And make sure that this thing is working correctly. The testing has to be done by certified lab or a person. 00:12:56
Installer who's been trained and certified to do it. 00:13:02
The do-it-yourself servicing, we thought when we start looking at the system. 00:13:06
Be an issue. 00:13:10
But in Ohio, that was found not to be a problem most people. 00:13:11
Realize that this is a complicated thing and it has to be done by a professional and therefore they're compliant with the 00:13:15
maintenance and. 00:13:18
The other thing we're concerned about was mosquito pooling and. 00:13:23
Wastewater. I didn't address this in the original documentation. 00:13:27
And what they said is you can't really have this thing discharged over your driveway or out the front yard. It has to run to an 00:13:32
existing non protected water source. 00:13:36
And so that that issues already been addressed and in general use that doesn't seem to be. 00:13:41
Major problem. 00:13:47
The item has addressed that issue and other requirements in the general discharge. 00:13:49
And lastly, the Indiana Technical Review Panel. The TRP has the ability to modify the O network. 00:13:55
Requirements. Uh. 00:14:00
But our plan is to look at these every six months as a general concept. 00:14:02
We get information that you've maintained your contract and you fulfill the circumstances of the contract. 00:14:07
Who will keep those records? 00:14:13
We would still respond to failing systems like we do. 00:14:15
Now and sort of the reinforce the previous. 00:14:18
Things that Mister Fox said. 00:14:22
And we're looking at, you know, at this point. 00:14:24
Four to seven systems. 00:14:27
Of which 4 solidly identified. 00:14:29
That would benefit from this. 00:14:32
It it is, there's some work involved here. 00:14:34
Involved not only for the health department but also for the commissioners in terms of your approval of the systems. 00:14:38
But in some of these properties, this allows people. 00:14:43
And I'll tell her to Mr. Weaver. 00:15:07
Anthony Lieber on the environmental supervisor at the Health Department. 00:15:10
Mr. Fox, Doctor Harrison covered a lot and so I'm going to try to not be redundant. 00:15:14
Really just go over the timeline and how this would work operation operationally for us. 00:15:18
So as mentioned, is a last chance, last chance rescue system. 00:15:22
And it would be because of some sort of soil limitation. Common limitations are. 00:15:27
Improper soil conditions, insufficient lot size and improper topographical conditions. 00:15:32
So if this were that you were to be a property owner that had. 00:15:38
These issues in your potentially eligible for this system. 00:15:42
Just a generic timeline. We're still working out a lot of the process on our end. 00:15:45
But at the Floyd County Health Department, who received notification that a system is in failure. 00:15:49
The property owner would hire an installer to investigate options for replacement. 00:15:54
A representative would meet out on the site and we would explore the options. 00:15:58
It is determined that the site limitations do not allow for the conventional on site sewage system for replacement. 00:16:02
The homeowner would then need to apply for an MPDS discharge system. 00:16:08
Permit that would go before the health board and the district for approval. 00:16:12
They also will have to obtain an operating permit from the health department as a check for us to make sure. 00:16:16
That they are continuing the proper operation and maintenance. They would also be required to submit all those records to us. 00:16:22
And I, at the end of the year, will have to send those to the Indiana Department of Environmental Management. 00:16:28
So there's several different checks that we have in. 00:16:33
There to kind of make sure everything's being done properly. 00:16:36
We also did the operating permit as an additional check that. 00:16:39
Be renewed. Don't really have time frame but you know, every so many years. 00:16:43
And that's also there that if somebody were to go. 00:16:46
Into non compliance. 00:16:49
Abate the issues, the operating permit could be suspended. 00:16:52
And then they would no longer be. 00:16:55
In compliance, that would be an illicit discharge on an approved discharge. 00:16:57
And who? And first of all, let me just ask you a quick question. 00:17:02
Who's going to make the 1st? 00:17:05
Call. Is this going to be the homeowner who has talked with their installer? 00:17:07
And the installer says we can't fix it. 00:17:12
A lot of times the homeowners will say, hey, my systems in failure. 00:17:15
Reach out to an installer. They will come to us occasionally. It's a neighbor says I smell something that smells like sewage 00:17:20
coming from. 00:17:23
Neighboring property, they reported to us, we would go through the proper steps to investigate that. 00:17:26
From then we would work with the homeowner and I'm sure some of them will speak later that we've been dealing with. 00:17:31
With us to, you know, right now they just are looking at pumping their septic tank. 00:17:36
And that is very expensive. We're looking 350 to $450 per pump. 00:17:40
So if you're having to do that every thousand or 1500 gallons you're using in a month, that gets very costly very quickly. 00:17:45
Let me ask you another question So. 00:17:52
If I want to build new construction, this is not. 00:17:54
Available to me? No, as stated earlier and we can clarify that this is only for repair replacement on existing homes. 00:17:57
Not be used for new construction and that is in the Indiana. 00:18:05
So this is a last chance. 00:18:09
You know, rescue system that there's everything else has been exhausted. 00:18:11
And outside of putting undue cost and burden on the homeowner to. 00:18:14
Pay thousands of dollars, potentially a month to have all of their septic tank pumped every. 00:18:17
You know, some, some could be every five to seven days. 00:18:22
So if someone had an old system. 00:18:25
And let's say that the. 00:18:28
Municipal sewer line was extended within 300 feet of their property. 00:18:31
They still couldn't use this because they've got a hook to that 300. 00:18:37
They have to go 300 feet and connect to the sanitary sewer. 00:18:41
There is in our ordinance, as long as it does not exceed 1 1/2 times the cost of replacement system, OK. There's also in the 00:18:45
Indiana code, it would state that. 00:18:51
If there's going to be. 00:18:57
Extreme burden, cost financially to the homeowner that this could also be an option. An example being there was one home we had 00:18:58
where they're gonna have to board. They were within 300 feet. 00:19:03
They're going to have to board under commercial properties and they're gonna be like $125,000 to do that. 00:19:07
They they would then you know, I would see them as. 00:19:13
Potential payment for those cadets. 00:19:16
Very, very costly. It's costly. It used to be the cost of the house. 00:19:19
So. 00:19:22
Doctor Harris said. He said there are 4. 00:19:24
Properties currently are those people living in the home or did they have to move out of the home? 2 of them. 00:19:26
Are vacant and two of them are being. 00:19:32
Occupied. 00:19:36
Are they pumping? 00:19:37
So they have to call sanitary. 00:19:39
Truck to come out and they are they are currently since they're in violation, contracted with it. 00:19:42
A septic company or septic company to come pump it out on a regular basis. 00:19:47
And they are. 00:19:52
I know generally we. 00:19:55
We have them set up based off their water usage is how we figure out how frequently they're pumping. 00:19:56
So the only. 00:20:01
Testing our inspections that are going to be done with this program are just going to be the units that are actually installed 00:20:04
under this program. 00:20:08
Yes, in high dim in their general discharge permit has very specific testing frequencies and limits and that is required as part 00:20:13
of the operation and maintenance agreement. 00:20:18
And if they are in. 00:20:23
In violation of that, that's where we would step in with. 00:20:25
Pulling the operating permit as well as orders to abate. 00:20:27
And I mean if it got to where they were. 00:20:31
Illicitly discharging sewage. We were treated like any other home that was doing that currently. So the health department will 00:20:33
advise the applicant when they come in that not only do you pay for the application, but you're going to pay. 00:20:39
Out of your own pocket, the cost going forward? 00:20:45
None of these fees will be part of what's. 00:20:48
So as part of. 00:20:51
Taxpayers. 00:20:53
As part of our application process, we will have an information sheet we currently do for new construction and repair replacement 00:20:55
situations. 00:20:59
There will be one that talks about the MPDS discharging. 00:21:03
They will know if the burden is on them to maintain the operation of maintenance and if they don't. 00:21:06
This is what will happen. 00:21:11
Which again, it's a last chance system that you're talking about, people that are looking for a way to stay in their home and it 00:21:13
be cost effective. 00:21:16
Very good. 00:21:20
Anything else to present? 00:21:22
All right, well at this. 00:21:25
If you would be sure you stay in the in the audience because I think there'll be some questions that people from the audience will 00:21:28
want to ask. 00:21:31
Directly, and I think that'd be helpful to get some answers directly to the public right now. 00:21:35
So at this time, unless Mr. Fox, you have anything else to add. 00:21:41
We've got a list here. 00:21:47
Mr. 00:21:49
See your name first. Would you like to come up and present what? 00:21:50
I have some photographs. 00:21:54
I'd like to give you very good. This is a typical example of the limited. 00:21:57
Kind of case. 00:22:03
Or this sort of system. 00:22:05
Not only ought to be allowed, but really has to be allowed. I've brought copies for all the commissioners. 00:22:07
Anybody from the health department? 00:22:15
Idea. 00:22:19
That leaves me with six more. Would anybody else like 1? 00:22:24
Thank you. 00:22:28
Please share 1 here. 00:22:35
Sure. 00:22:36
Have one more. 00:22:40
Yeah, there we go. 00:22:47
Thank you for indulging. Absolutely. 00:22:51
You might point out for everybody else. 00:22:56
Where this is I will. 00:22:58
For the record, my name is Steve Lowmeyer. 00:23:02
I have a background in wastewater treatment, if you count 1 summer's summer job at the New Albany Wastewater Treatment Plant. 00:23:06
I have a background in commercial and residential plumbing if you count 1. Summer working for Rook Plumbing in a crew that did 00:23:13
nothing except sewer installation. 00:23:18
But for the last. 00:23:23
43 years I've been an attorney. 00:23:24
And when you're an attorney and you reach my age? 00:23:27
You do lots of wills and estates. 00:23:30
That's a sign of something I'd rather not dwell on. 00:23:33
I'm currently handling the estate of Jack Posey. 00:23:37
Jack was. 00:23:42
A sweetheart of a guy. 00:23:43
I got a photograph. I don't know why I brought it, but anyway, it was a sweetheart of a guy. 00:23:47
Who died back in January of last year. 00:23:52
His wife had died six months before him. 00:23:55
So he put me in charge of his estate. 00:23:59
He left roughly $1.5 million in investments. 00:24:05
And the house and the contents. 00:24:10
He left all of it to 4 individuals and seven charities. 00:24:13
The Salvation Army, the Animal Rescue League, First Baptist Church, Special Olympics and some others. 00:24:18
I liquidated everything in the 1st 90 days of the administration of this estate. 00:24:25
Everything except the house. 00:24:31
I can't sell the house. 00:24:35
If you look at. 00:24:38
Page 1 of the handout. It's an aerial shot. 00:24:40
Of. 00:24:44
Floyd Central High School. That's the roof of Floyd Central there at the bottom. 00:24:45
Straight across the road is Benchmark Subdivision, and I've circled Jack Posey's house at the very, very back. 00:24:50
Of benchmark. 00:24:58
If you look at the picture, you'll see a dark stripe across the back of his property. 00:25:01
That's a Creek. 00:25:08
It's known as the Yellow Fork. 00:25:09
It exits out of Mount Saint Francis to the east. 00:25:12
And then goes down and circles around the ball fields at Floyd Central. 00:25:17
The house actually sits on a bluff above and overlooking. 00:25:25
The Creek. 00:25:30
It's a lovely spot. 00:25:32
But I can't sell it. 00:25:35
Turn the page. 00:25:38
On page 2 is a picture of. 00:25:40
Jacks front yard. 00:25:43
You can tell. 00:25:46
The scale by looking at the size of the garage door and the size of the cap. 00:25:48
The front yard is about big enough to park 4, maybe 5 cars on if they're small. 00:25:53
That's all the front yard that's there. 00:25:58
Turn the page. 00:26:03
There's the view out the back. 00:26:06
Of Jack's house. 00:26:08
It's lovely in the winter, it's lovelier in the spring. 00:26:10
But if you look closely at the photograph, you'll see. 00:26:13
You're looking out into the. 00:26:16
Of those trees. 00:26:18
Turn the page. 00:26:23
That's the view of the back of the house. 00:26:25
Looking up. 00:26:28
From the Creek. 00:26:30
Like I said, the house is built. 00:26:31
On a bluff. 00:26:34
There is no. 00:26:36
Backyard. 00:26:38
As of right now, I can't sell the house because it can't be occupied. 00:26:42
It can't be occupied because it doesn't. 00:26:49
Have a working septic system. 00:26:51
When I got this estate I was informed that there was a problem with Jack Posey septic system and I hired an engineer to come in 00:26:56
and take a look at it. 00:27:00
That's when I learned that Jacks septic system doesn't have a conventional septic tank. 00:27:06
With lateral lines running out. 00:27:12
Under the yard. 00:27:15
It has a buried. 00:27:18
Aerating tank. 00:27:20
With aerobic bacteria that consume and digest organic waste. 00:27:23
These kinds of systems were specifically designed for building lots. 00:27:30
Like Jags? 00:27:34
Lots that are too small or too steep. 00:27:36
For conventional septic tanks with lateral lines. 00:27:39
They were considered safe in the day. 00:27:44
And they were perfectly legal when Jack built his house. 00:27:47
But this kind of septic system was banned. 00:27:53
By federal rules and regulations some years ago. 00:27:56
The rules and regulations didn't require folks to remove these kind of septic systems if they were already in place. 00:28:01
But the rules and regulations prohibited the installation. 00:28:09
Replacement or even the repair of these kinds of septic systems in the future. 00:28:13
The message from the EPA was. 00:28:22
When your system fails. 00:28:25
Do something else. 00:28:27
The rules and regulations didn't consider the very real possibility that there might not. 00:28:32
Be an alternative. 00:28:37
At Jack's house. 00:28:40
There is no. 00:28:41
Alternative. 00:28:43
I wasn't the first to come to this conclusion when I inherited Jack's. 00:28:47
A state case. I also inherited all of Jack's tax records and bank records and other financial records, and that's when I found out 00:28:51
Jack Septic System had failed. 00:28:56
Back in 2021. 00:29:01
I could tell from his bank records that he had spent. 00:29:04
Thousands of dollars to have engineers come out and try to figure out some kind of septic system that could be installed. 00:29:08
To replace. 00:29:18
The Buried. 00:29:20
With the aerating system and aerobic bacteria to digest. 00:29:22
Organic waste. 00:29:27
And the answer that he got from all of them was. 00:29:29
There's nothing else that you can do. 00:29:32
The front yard was too small for a conventional septic tank with lateral lines. 00:29:38
And the back of the house. 00:29:43
Hangs out over the bluff. 00:29:45
You can't hang lateral lines in the air. 00:29:48
There really isn't. 00:29:52
An alternative? 00:29:53
The proposed ordinance is designed to address those limited cases, like JAX, where they're really. 00:29:56
Isn't. 00:30:03
An alternative? 00:30:04
Jack's case isn't unique, not in the US, not in Indiana, not even in Floyd County. But. 00:30:07
Not common. 00:30:12
In the middle of last year, the EPA. 00:30:17
Finally, amended its rules and regulations to say in essence, OK, we see the problem. Sometimes there isn't an alternative. 00:30:19
And Jack's kind of septic system is better than no septic system at all. 00:30:29
I will say as an aside that I grew up on Silver Hills in the 1960s. 00:30:34
Where every house on Knob Ave. and Highland Ave. had a pipe that hung out over the hill just below the tree line. 00:30:39
You flushed your toilet on Monday and in two weeks it was W 9th St's problem. 00:30:45
That's where us kids played when I was living. 00:30:50
Lots of toads, lots of frogs, lots of never mind. You don't want to get into it. 00:30:53
That's why I'm immune to every disease known to man, I think. 00:30:56
The Fed said OK, we'll let these kind of septic systems be used. 00:31:02
If the state allows it under whatever circumstances and whatever terms and conditions the set states. 00:31:06
The state set. 00:31:14
And I figured at that point we were home free because I figured this the state would say we'll allow the replacement or repair of 00:31:17
Jack's kind of septic system. 00:31:21
When the homeowner can demonstrate, there really isn't. 00:31:27
A feasible alternative because any kind of septic system is better than no septic system. 00:31:30
Like what I grew up? 00:31:36
At the end of last year, however, the Indiana Department of Revenue. 00:31:40
Indiana Department of. 00:31:44
Environmental Management. 00:31:46
And the State Board of Health. 00:31:47
Took kind of the same approach that the EPA took. 00:31:49
And they said, you know. 00:31:52
We agree that sometimes there isn't an alternative. 00:31:54
And Jack's kind of septic system is better than no septic system. 00:31:57
So we'll allow a person to repair or replace Jack's kind of septic system. 00:32:01
If the county. 00:32:06
Allows it. 00:32:08
On whatever terms and conditions. 00:32:10
The Floyd County Health Department and the Floyd County Sewer District set. 00:32:12
And of course. 00:32:17
Therein lies the problem. 00:32:18
We don't have a Floyd County sewer district yet. 00:32:20
We're going to remedy that, I hope with your help. Thank you. 00:32:23
I tried to get an OK from the health department alone. 00:32:27
I was here some months ago making this same pitch saying Jack's lot is. 00:32:30
Too small, too steep for a conventional septic tank and lateral lines. 00:32:36
And I told them this may be your least. 00:32:42
Favorite kind of septic system? 00:32:45
But it's better than nothing. 00:32:50
You may choose. I told them to deny permits for new construction. 00:32:54
Period. 00:32:58
That's what they're going to do. 00:33:00
You may choose to deny permits. 00:33:02
Even to folks who have this kind of system, when it fails if there is. 00:33:04
Another alternative. 00:33:09
Even if it's expensive. 00:33:11
More expensive than the kind that they had. 00:33:14
But you can't deny. 00:33:17
A homeowner to replace a system that was in place before all this happened. 00:33:21
Now it's failed, and there is. 00:33:26
No feasible. 00:33:29
Alternative. 00:33:32
You've got to, OK. 00:33:37
A buried aerating septic tank with aerobic bacteria that consume and digest waste. 00:33:39
Once that system has failed. 00:33:46
When nothing else. 00:33:48
Is feasible. 00:33:50
There aren't a lot of houses that fit that description but Jack Poseys house. 00:33:52
Is the poster child for where the exception is appropriate. 00:33:56
I'm hoping we can get something and something soon so that I can sell Jack's house. 00:34:02
Or the benefit of the trustees of First Baptist Church, the Salvation Army, the Floyd County Animal Rescue League, Special 00:34:07
Olympics, the Humane Association of Clark County, and the rest of these charities. 00:34:13
Please help me. 00:34:19
As a personal representative. 00:34:21
Of the estate. 00:34:23
If you're. 00:34:24
Refused all of those options. 00:34:26
It would seem to me that your only alternative would be to demolish the home. 00:34:30
And to have a vacant lot. 00:34:36
Let it go back to. 00:34:38
The tax to the county. 00:34:40
For non payment of tax. 00:34:43
I could do that. 00:34:45
Because that's really the only alternative that would seem to be rather spiteful. I'm not a spiteful guy. 00:34:47
I can tell you we have a couple of other alternatives. 00:34:53
But they don't sound promising. 00:34:57
I could offer the house. 00:35:00
As a future vacant lot. 00:35:02
To the homeowner down the road. 00:35:05
Or the homeowner up the road. 00:35:09
And say would you like to have another quarter acre of vacant lot? 00:35:11
I don't think they take me up on it. Why would they? 00:35:18
My house when I was a kid backed up to 15 acres of woods that we didn't own. 00:35:20
And I got to enjoy the woods all my childhood. 00:35:25
Yeah, well, this is a property paying real estate tax. It is, but it won't be if that's demolished. 00:35:27
And one of the neighbors takes it over. It's going to be minimal tax, absolutely vacant law. That was very insightful, yes. 00:35:35
Just want to clarify that. 00:35:43
I had a similar situation where my advice to the client was. 00:35:45
You're going to have to let it go back. 00:35:49
To the county. 00:35:51
Because there's it can't be occupied. 00:35:53
So if you can't occupy it, then there's no reason putting any more money into the product. 00:35:56
Thank you very much. Thank you. 00:36:02
Mr. Mauser. 00:36:08
A strenuously opposed. 00:36:27
The formation of an on site septic. 00:36:29
Management District. 00:36:33
Primarily because it is neither needed. 00:36:35
Nor advantageous. 00:36:38
The Floyd County Health Department presently has the authority. 00:36:41
And the responsibility? 00:36:46
To accomplish everything. 00:36:48
That an established district. 00:36:51
Could reasonably do. 00:36:53
I do not doubt that there are on site sewage disposal systems. 00:36:56
That are failing. 00:37:01
In their intended purpose. 00:37:04
Which has solved this problem. 00:37:06
By adding layers of responsibility. 00:37:09
And her authority would author would offer nothing helpful. 00:37:12
Is the Floyd County Health Department is not fulfilling its responsibility now? 00:37:18
The Board of Floyd County Commissioners could hardly expect better performance. 00:37:24
Under their direction. 00:37:29
I have paid property taxes to Floyd County, Indiana for 66 year. 00:37:32
I had my first exposure to management of sewage disposal. 00:37:39
More than 55 years ago. 00:37:43
At a food processing plant in Pennsylvania. 00:37:46
I was assigned to write the justification for the plant to spend approximately. 00:37:50
$70,000. 00:37:55
To upgrade its treatment plan. 00:37:58
The previous practice had been. 00:38:01
For the plant manager to write a letter to the state officials. 00:38:04
Each year. 00:38:09
Explaining the good things the plant would do. 00:38:11
To stop. 00:38:14
The pollution of tiny. 00:38:15
Herkimen Creek. 00:38:18
The plant manager had known Pennsylvania would not shut down a plant. 00:38:21
With 500 full time employees. 00:38:26
But it was time to actually do something. 00:38:29
I relate this ancient history. 00:38:33
To indicate that I am not new. 00:38:36
To observing responsible people. 00:38:39
Being irresponsible. 00:38:42
Or even dishonest. 00:38:44
The purpose for forming a district is not apparent. 00:38:47
#4. 00:38:52
Notice of Intent states. 00:38:54
The district will serve a territory. 00:38:57
Within Floyd County, Indiana. 00:39:00
Consisting of the unincorporated. 00:39:03
Area. 00:39:07
In Floyd County. 00:39:08
Greenville and Georgetown. 00:39:10
There is no unincorporated area in Greenville. 00:39:13
Or Georgetown. 00:39:18
#5 of this notice of intent says. 00:39:20
In quotation mark. 00:39:25
The plan for financing the ongoing operation. 00:39:27
Of the district will be solely. 00:39:31
By charging unit users. 00:39:34
For an operating permit. 00:39:37
End of quotation. 00:39:40
It is not explained whether this permit will be renewed. 00:39:43
Annually or who will be charged? 00:39:47
Number six conflicts directly with #5. 00:39:52
#7. 00:39:57
Allows any application. 00:39:59
And fit. 00:40:01
By the management district executive body. 00:40:05
Which shall be defined. 00:40:09
As the Florida County Commissioners. 00:40:12
Lastly #8 states. 00:40:16
This action action. 00:40:19
Shall grant the authority. 00:40:21
For enforcement and complete compliance of X. 00:40:23
Set forth by the district. 00:40:29
To the Floyd County Health Department. 00:40:32
This proposed district. 00:40:36
Is pursuant to IC. 00:40:39
36-11-3. 00:40:41
Section 4. 00:40:45
D of this code. 00:40:48
Refers to any. 00:40:50
Position against the establishment. 00:40:52
Of the district. 00:40:55
District 14. 00:40:57
D1. 00:41:00
And two. 00:41:03
Continues by stating. 00:41:04
That the decision by the Commissioners regarding any potential. 00:41:07
Or any petition. 00:41:11
Is final. 00:41:14
This makes any and all resistance to establishment. 00:41:16
Of a district. 00:41:21
Totally. 00:41:22
Cute. 00:41:23
I presume this is your written objection. 00:41:34
That the statute. Well, I appreciate that. 00:41:36
Next, Jeff Reinhart. 00:41:46
The little map background. 00:42:00
Is about 50 years in safety and environmental industry. 00:42:03
Everyone has waste treatment plants. 00:42:07
Regular stormwater permits and so forth. 00:42:10
I don't have a problem. 00:42:12
As presented. 00:42:14
These systems should work great for. 00:42:16
Rescue. 00:42:18
I just don't want the ordinance to be. 00:42:20
The first step. 00:42:22
In county wide sewers. 00:42:24
We're too rural for that. 00:42:25
Cost to be too high. 00:42:27
For all the homeowners. 00:42:28
My little St. 00:42:31
7/10 of a mile long has 13 residences and most of us have more than 3 or 400 feet of frontage. 00:42:33
So the cost to install regular sewers would be unbelievable. 00:42:41
If it's a rescue system and that's what they're doing. 00:42:46
That's one thing if it's a first step. 00:42:49
And they use that as a stepping stone into quite wide. 00:42:51
Our countrywide sewer systems. 00:42:56
Hardly approached. 00:42:59
Understood. 00:43:02
Appreciate that. 00:43:03
I don't believe it is, but if it is. 00:43:05
There'll have to be another public hearing and a whole nother process to go through. 00:43:08
So. 00:43:13
Weird. This is only focused on rescue. 00:43:15
And systems that have failed. 00:43:19
And again as you heard the first example. 00:43:22
There's a home that can't be sold. 00:43:25
And that that's. 00:43:28
Ineffective taking of the property. 00:43:30
So that's unjust to to not provide for someone to be able to use the property that they built. 00:43:32
And that was my point about. 00:43:39
Tearing the home down. There's a significant cost to tearing it down. 00:43:42
And trying to sell a vacant lot to one of the neighbors. No one's going to buy a vacant lot. 00:43:46
The best they could do would be granted to the Floyd County Parks Department to use as a park. 00:43:52
So you know. 00:43:58
Then they won't accept that. So it's it's really a problem. But in any event, thank you for your comments. How about Christy 00:44:00
Murphy? 00:44:04
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to. 00:44:16
Sure, my husband and I. 00:44:18
We grew up in Floyd County. We looked at our whole lives and. 00:44:23
We always wanted to move the flights knobs and we are one of those fortunate people, the one of two that have that house. 00:44:27
That we're living in, where we have to have the tank pumped every month. 00:44:34
We have a similar. 00:44:38
Property as a Mr. Posey. 00:44:39
Where very steep incline, very small lot, which is why that system was installed in the 1st place when the house was built. 00:44:42
And when we bought the house, we had it inspected but. 00:44:51
I've never had a septic system. I didn't realize that the inspector didn't check that. 00:44:56
And it was shortly after we moved in that we realized that the septic system or the system that we had. 00:44:59
Wasn't working. When did you buy the home? I'm sorry, 2017. 00:45:06
Was it 2017 or 2018? 00:45:12
18 Sorry. 00:45:14
And I went through all the steps that he went through. I even reached out to Moreco and asked them like, what can we do to fix the 00:45:17
system that we have? 00:45:22
I had one of those little. 00:45:27
Beat her things installed. 00:45:29
There's no filter in this system anymore, so it doesn't do anything. 00:45:30
But you know. 00:45:34
The risers that were on the system originally removed. 00:45:38
When we bought the house and it was filled with gravel. 00:45:41
And the previous owner didn't have any. 00:45:44
Permits for the driveway that he put in for the deck. 00:45:47
He knew that the system was. 00:45:50
Not working. 00:45:52
And that there was number alternative to replace it. And I think this is something that nobody's mentioned yet. 00:45:53
When people find out that they have no alternative, they're going to hide. 00:45:59
They're gonna do everything that they can to stay below the radar. 00:46:02
And they're going to continue dumping that waste into the Creek behind their house, which was what was happening for us. 00:46:05
When we had the pipe finally burst and underneath our driveway was coming up and we called. 00:46:13
Checkers and. 00:46:20
Then they came out and did a soil test. That's when we found out that there was an alternative that. 00:46:23
There's no room for our traditional septic system. There's no way we could get sewers too far out. We even went to our neighbors 00:46:27
to see if they would give us an easement. 00:46:31
For lateral lines and they declined that so. 00:46:37
Basically overnight we found that our house. 00:46:40
Worthless. 00:46:43
Everything that we have. 00:46:44
Is in our house, we have no. 00:46:46
So far we spent. 00:46:53
About $9000 just. 00:46:55
To have the tank pumped. 00:46:58
You know, they come out twice a month. We have four of us living in the house. 00:47:00
They come out and pump it, which costs 275 each time. 00:47:05
And then I'm sending laundry out to my stepdaughter. 00:47:09
Because I'd rather her have the money. 00:47:12
Because we can't run the washer, we can't flush our toilet. Except. 00:47:14
For emergencies, you know. 00:47:18
We're we're basically not even really living in our house. 00:47:20
But we have no alternative. 00:47:24
We have nowhere to go. 00:47:26
We'd have to file for bankruptcy and we lose everything. 00:47:27
And I know. 00:47:33
But there's risk with these systems. That's where there's a lot of maintenance. 00:47:34
But we would do anything. 00:47:38
They have an option. 00:47:40
And you know. 00:47:42
That our system is draining into the Creek that ran it goes right down to letting Walter Park. 00:47:46
Kids play in the Creek. 00:47:51
And I know that there are other houses like this that have the same system and if they don't have any alternative. 00:47:52
You're just, they're just going to let it keep happening. 00:47:58
And. 00:48:01
You know I would more than gladly. 00:48:03
Sign an agreement saying that we'll have inspected every. 00:48:06
Every, I think it was once every six months, you know, and pay for that just so that we could live in our house. 00:48:10
And have our savings back. 00:48:16
Well, thank you for stepping up and telling us your story. 00:48:22
Appreciate that. Appreciate it. 00:48:25
Dale, Man. 00:48:29
No tail man, Georgetown. 00:48:37
Presentation day has been pretty good. 00:48:40
Thanks for the educational. 00:48:42
The only problem that I see, I don't know where it says in the statute. 00:48:44
That you have to form a district. 00:48:48
I think it says you may or you shall. 00:48:50
In the district is another form of governance, another layer of government. 00:48:53
You go to Commissioner, that's another layer. 00:48:58
And that's what people are opposed to. 00:49:01
And it is. A lot of people think it's a. 00:49:04
Prelude to forest on sewer system. 00:49:06
And but the President's Day was good. 00:49:10
And it was education. Thank you for that. 00:49:13
Thank you, Dale. 00:49:17
Doctor Harris, do you want to? 00:49:21
Is the health department want to comment on on that? 00:49:24
The issue of because I think you said that the. 00:49:27
State said if the county. 00:49:30
Will authorize. 00:49:32
Then then it can be done. But if the. 00:49:35
Local, county, district. 00:49:39
That's created, doesn't approve it, then you're not going to be able. The health department's has their hands tied. 00:49:41
And really can't do anything. 00:49:47
That's that's your understanding. 00:49:50
So the state code does say that in order to. 00:49:56
Do a NPDES discharge and I believe it's IC 13. 00:49:59
That states you have to do it within a. 00:50:05
On site wastewater management district. 00:50:08
So the district is the only way that we can. 00:50:11
They can then delegate authority to us. 00:50:13
To start doing this and it is a rescue system. 00:50:16
For existing homes, not for new construction. 00:50:19
And like like I said previously. 00:50:22
Have to check off all the boxes like that's part of what the state code says as well, that we've done our investigation and the 00:50:24
traditional style that's approved. 00:50:28
Will not work or not go into this site as several homeowners have stated they have. 00:50:32
They have sites where the topography or the soil, you know, won't allow it. And I've been to both of the sites that the homeowners 00:50:36
talked about. 00:50:40
And the. 00:50:44
The state license or permit that you're talking about was what? 00:50:46
Mr. Fox filed with the state Department of Environmental Management. 00:50:52
Notice of intent to form the district. 00:50:56
To obtain this license. 00:50:59
And in that it says that talking about systems that have. 00:51:02
Been installed to repair or replace a sewage disposal system that failed. 00:51:07
To meet public health and environmental standards. 00:51:12
And then of course, technology and economic hardship analysis has to be involved, so. 00:51:15
Again, it's a very limited purpose for which this. 00:51:20
Permit would be. 00:51:24
Allowed from the state to allow. 00:51:25
The health Department. 00:51:27
Grant permission assuming that the county. 00:51:29
District authorized that. 00:51:32
In fact, yeah, Indiana code that this is a rescue system. 00:51:35
That can only be used. 00:51:39
Other options? 00:51:41
Either not feasible or have already been. 00:51:42
Awesome. So it's actually written into the Indiana code that this is clearly a rescue system. 00:51:44
There is nothing inherent in the system that. 00:51:51
Even vaguely mentions or approaches rural sewers. 00:51:55
Or requiring A sewer district. 00:51:58
This is clearly a setup for people. 00:52:02
That we might actually use their homes. 00:52:04
Or their capital if they aren't allowed to use the systems that. 00:52:06
Residents very good. Thank you Again, Permanent discharge is only allowed. 00:52:11
With the formation of the district and that is in the code that they approved. Thank you for that clarification. 00:52:15
Melissa Zink. 00:52:24
Hello. Hi, good afternoon. I want to speak in. 00:52:33
Favor of forming this district. 00:52:37
I am like this other with another homeowner that. 00:52:40
I bought a property as an investment. 00:52:45
And. 00:52:47
Filed all my permits that I needed to do the to do the repairs on it and. 00:52:49
Quite quickly found out that the system had something like. 00:52:56
Mr. Posey's had was a system that was designed specifically for that lot way back in the day. 00:53:00
And we called some licensed inspectors out to repair it, whatever and. 00:53:05
They say a no go. 00:53:11
Have had the health department, the state health board. 00:53:14
I think even Doctor Harris. 00:53:18
Two or three different. 00:53:20
Septic installers and out my property. I've had soil samples done so yet again I've spent thousands of dollars. 00:53:21
And still have no. 00:53:28
Viable. 00:53:30
Solution to the problem. 00:53:32
And this would be a great. 00:53:34
Benefit to me because right now I have. 00:53:37
A fairly large sum of money just sitting there in the hole in the ground. What's the address of that? 00:53:40
That's over on Bud Rd. 00:53:46
So is that 3273? OK, That's where you're living. 00:53:48
No, it's an investment property. 00:53:53
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't. I thought you was running. 00:53:56
No, I live in Lanesville. 00:53:59
Just outside well in Floyd County, but the Lanesville area. 00:54:02
But that's I thought they wanted the property address, right? No, that's good. Yeah, that's the property address. I had purchased 00:54:06
it as an investment. 00:54:10
Again trying to. 00:54:14
Sure. 00:54:17
Have something for retirement stuff. 00:54:18
And soon found out. 00:54:21
Quite quickly like you all did that. 00:54:24
It was. 00:54:28
Not operable. So now we have repurchased that actually back in 2019. 00:54:29
And we have been paying for it, paying property taxes on it every year, which is about $3000 a year, because it's not my personal 00:54:34
residence and I can't take any homestead deductions and such. So it's. 00:54:40
It's quite a large expense that we have sitting there. So this would be a great. 00:54:46
Opportunity. I went with a couple of the. 00:54:50
Installers up to the Indiana. 00:54:54
Senators and stuff to. 00:54:59
Testify. 00:55:01
When the original bill was sent out and helped them. 00:55:03
To get this into our area it is needed. 00:55:06
And like it is, it's a rescue. 00:55:09
Nobody wants this. I would love to have a regular system put in. I could have been done with this, you know, two years, three 00:55:11
years ago. 00:55:14
But here I'm just sitting here in a holding pattern. 00:55:17
Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Appreciate. 00:55:20
And Donnie Cobert. 00:55:23
Donna, I'm sorry. 00:55:27
You know. 00:55:29
All right. Thank you. 00:55:31
Yes, Sir. 00:55:34
I ride the government state, come on up, just jump. 00:55:35
Tell me your name. 00:55:38
Joseph Moore. 00:55:39
Right now I use old man. 00:55:44
That's OK Where do you live, Joseph? 00:55:45
Georgetown. 00:55:52
First of all, thank you. 00:55:54
And I'd like to extend my sympathies to these folks. 00:55:56
I've been involved in cases where people got hosed on real estate deals that. 00:55:59
They really should not be left out in the cold. 00:56:03
And have to eat all this themselves. 00:56:05
My apologies but missed. 00:56:08
And a couple minutes late. So if I something was said I'm asking about I apologize, but I'm. 00:56:10
Yet is it not? Am I correct in my understanding that? 00:56:16
In order for this. 00:56:20
Remedy to be approved, there has to be. 00:56:23
A district established, is that correct? That's correct. OK, So this shell OK. 00:56:25
The since there are so few of these occurrences, I mean. 00:56:31
I'm in favor of these folks getting relief. 00:56:36
Whether it's the estate? 00:56:38
Or just honest homeowners that got hosed on these deals? 00:56:40
Which, you know, poop happens, so let's. 00:56:43
It might. It's going to happen in the future. 00:56:47
So. 00:56:50
My concerns are this. 00:56:51
I'm also not a fan of. 00:56:54
Additional bureaucracy. 00:56:56
I don't think this is an insidious plot to. 00:56:59
Force everyone on the public. 00:57:02
I think that under these circumstances, it will be limited to those. 00:57:05
Few cases where it's absolutely necessary. 00:57:08
But the. 00:57:11
My concern is. 00:57:13
How big? 00:57:15
Of a bureaucracy. 00:57:16
Do we need would it be 1 employee with our health department? No, no employees there. There was a misunderstanding in the 00:57:18
newspaper by someone that wrote a letter to the editor. 00:57:23
And there it's all going to be delegated to the health department. The health department's attempting to do the job now they don't 00:57:30
have the tools. 00:57:34
To do the job. 00:57:38
So they don't have the tools to do the job, you can't do the job, and what they need is. 00:57:40
The authority that the state says, yes you can use this exception, but you got to have the district to do it. 00:57:46
And from what I've been explained with a stack of paper that I I have. 00:57:53
That, uh. 00:57:59
What is intended is for these failed systems. 00:58:00
So that the people that have the failed system will have that choice. 00:58:04
So, uh. 00:58:08
Mr. Lomire will have the choice once he figures out. 00:58:09
The health department figures this all out and says OK. 00:58:13
Here's what it's going to cost you. 00:58:16
To fix it. 00:58:18
So he'll have a choice. 00:58:19
Like every other property owner to either tear down the home. 00:58:21
And leave a vacant lot. 00:58:26
And then figure out. 00:58:28
To let it go back to the state or deed it to the kids and give them a problem. 00:58:29
Or something with that property. 00:58:34
Or they'll have to pay that amount to keep that going. 00:58:36
And it's it's just like anybody in the county, if you want to go out in the county and enjoy the beautiful countryside. 00:58:40
And try to avoid. 00:58:47
The taxes in a municipality that has a sewer. 00:58:48
That's great, but now you have the cost of taking care of the septic system to ensure that it's sanitary and safe for you. 00:58:52
More importantly, your neighbors. 00:59:00
So, you know, it's a choice that we all make. I understand all that. I mean, I heard the presentations and I. 00:59:02
Agreed. Umm, uh. 00:59:09
So basically I'm hearing that. 00:59:11
Mr. Little Meyer and his employees were just somebody wearing a different hat. It wouldn't be a new person, right? 00:59:12
Basically just. 00:59:19
Doctor Harris and his staff and the health department. 00:59:20
We already are doing a lot of the work. They have these same requests. There's a form that they have for applications, they'll 00:59:24
have a second form. 00:59:28
And it will only be for these failed systems. 00:59:33
And yes, they're going to have. 00:59:36
Operational problems. We can all imagine that there will be plenty of people saying. 00:59:38
I want that system even though I got a system in checker and these other experts say no you can repair this. 00:59:42
They're going to say, well, I don't want that. I want this new system. 00:59:51
And the health department's not going to have authority under the ordinance and if. 00:59:55
They trying to get political clout to change all this. 01:00:01
They're going to be back with the county commissioners requesting another hearing. 01:00:05
For a new ordinance to extend the district. 01:00:09
In its function and scope, it's very very limited. 01:00:13
I do understand this. Again my question was. 01:00:16
Are we adding more people who said no, that's fine. 01:00:20
And I understand that the cost. 01:00:23
Would be borne by the homeowner. 01:00:25
Not the taxpayers. 01:00:28
Understand this correctly. 01:00:31
The establishment of this district. 01:00:33
I won't call it superficial. 01:00:35
But it won't increase cost the taxpayers. 01:00:37
Since the occurrence is so rare and it would be kept in house. 01:00:40
But the health Department? 01:00:43
I if that's the. 01:00:45
Speaking with Harrison County if it's a cost, but. 01:00:50
If it's not increased cost. 01:00:55
I don't see any objection to it. 01:00:57
If it's not more bureaucracy at. 01:00:58
A pipeline to public sewers. 01:01:01
We're burning the taxpayers. 01:01:04
I don't see who could object them. 01:01:06
And these folks need relief and. 01:01:08
Like he said, this is the last chance thing. This is that. 01:01:10
And I'm sure it won't be. 01:01:13
Really approved it sounds like. 01:01:15
These folks know it's for a desperate no alternative situation. 01:01:17
So. 01:01:21
Thank you. 01:01:22
Does anyone else want to speak? 01:01:25
For or against? 01:01:26
Yes, ma'am. 01:01:30
A question at this point in time. 01:01:31
What's the cost of this system? 01:01:34
We know. 01:01:36
I'm here 'cause I did the research I was seeing from 25 to 32,000 to install. 01:01:39
And at least $2000. 01:01:43
That's what an installer here. 01:01:47
Yes, Sir, back here in the corner. 01:01:54
My name is Joseph Thomas. 01:02:06
I live on clay court right off of Luther Rd. 01:02:09
I live on. 01:02:12
I've got about 3 to 4 feet of land. 01:02:14
Where my old labels are. 01:02:17
It's in process. 01:02:19
Of feeling nothing. 01:02:22
Feel good. It's in the process of feeling. 01:02:23
And for the sake of the women. 01:02:26
Audience. 01:02:28
There's been a couple days where I have particularly. 01:02:30
French bath. 01:02:32
And for you don't know what that is. 01:02:34
That means washing your. 01:02:36
Every other day. 01:02:39
Or two or three, maybe four days. 01:02:41
And also. 01:02:43
Not being able. 01:02:44
Wash your dishes, your clothes. 01:02:46
I'm not in favor. 01:02:48
Other district or against it? I don't. I have no idea. 01:02:49
But like Murphy's. 01:02:54
The other couples in here. 01:02:56
Are having trouble. 01:02:58
It should be to that individuals. 01:03:00
Choice as to what they won't put in. 01:03:02
I have had. 01:03:05
This a estimate on these. 01:03:07
It would cost me anywhere from 50 to $60,000. 01:03:09
Put this system in. 01:03:13
To replace the hole. 01:03:16
Septic system which doesn't need it. 01:03:17
When I did have it. 01:03:20
That's insane way just to. 01:03:22
Compare going to cost between 30 and 40,000 dollars. 01:03:24
So for the people do not have it. 01:03:30
The option. 01:03:33
This is what I think is a good opportunity for them. 01:03:35
Them I would personally volunteer as a. 01:03:37
To have somebody. 01:03:41
Do it. I would do it myself. 01:03:42
Not situation. 01:03:45
Mr. Goldwire, I know. 01:03:46
Jack Foley's personally. 01:03:48
I'll have to disagree with what kind of level. 01:03:51
He was my supervisor. 01:03:55
But. 01:04:00
Jack, I know. Jack I've known him for. 01:04:01
Well, I didn't know. 01:04:05
Said he was my supervisor and he was an engineer. 01:04:07
He was a licensed engineer. 01:04:12
And if he couldn't figure it out? 01:04:14
These other people can't figure it out either. 01:04:17
I've had the health department out and they've been very helpful to me and I appreciate their help. 01:04:20
That there should be left up to the individual. 01:04:27
I don't have any acres or 50 acres. 01:04:30
When it feels you can run it out. Fertilize my fields. 01:04:33
Oh, I got it. I got an 80 about 100 and. 01:04:36
I think 180. 01:04:38
It's 80 by 140 foot lot. 01:04:40
And there's six houses on my street. 01:04:44
There's about two acres of land there and they're all in the same thing. 01:04:47
Rock maybe 3 or 4 feet. 01:04:51
No, not. It's not even the ground. 01:04:54
It's filled. 01:04:57
Clay, Clay. 01:04:58
And it is getting saturated. 01:05:00
And I have. I'm in process now. 01:05:02
But doing something about it, which was approved by the health department. 01:05:05
Which I appreciate. 01:05:09
That's so it's not for or against. 01:05:11
But I do think it should be up to the individual. 01:05:15
The state has already approved it. 01:05:18
For statewide. 01:05:20
I see no reason why an individual candidate. 01:05:22
Cannot get. 01:05:24
Or a path. Thank you. 01:05:26
Thank you. 01:05:28
Andy Bond, Else. 01:05:32
Like to speak. 01:05:34
Well, seeing no. 01:05:37
Other. 01:05:39
Questions. 01:05:40
Yes. 01:05:42
Oh, get your. 01:05:45
Very good. 01:05:47
Hearing no other responses, I'll prepare my. 01:05:49
Findings and recommendations and present those to the Commissioners. 01:05:54
Appreciate each of you coming out today to talk about this. It's good to have a public. 01:05:58
Hearing and hear all the different thoughts and this will be encouraging. 01:06:03
I think to all those involved. 01:06:07
To see that we can work together to get these things accomplished. So thank you very much. We're adjourned. 01:06:10
Bye. 01:06:20
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