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Event transcript
The Council. 00:00:04
Friday, July 19, 2024 If you'll please silence your cell phones and you need to have a conversation, we've got the the hallway 00:00:06
you'll rise and join for the Pledge of Allegiance, please. 00:00:11
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:00:18
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:24
All right, thank everyone for being here. We have a busy agenda, but I am told that we have open-ended possession of the room 00:00:32
until about 4:00 PM this afternoon. So I'm joking. We won't be here that long, but we'll probably go a little bit after the 11:00 00:00:39
hour. Mr. Springle is not present, but he is on his way. I have two messages that indicates that. So we will go ahead and begin in 00:00:46
his absence. We do have an agenda before us. We're going to add. 00:00:53
To that presentation from Highlander Fire with regards to an update on. 00:01:01
1st. 00:01:06
I just have the high wind right here. Didn't see it, sorry. Thanks. So we'll hear from them towards the end of the meeting. The 00:01:10
agenda that was handed out had 12345. We're going to bring 5 up to #1 before our presentation from envoy. So I. 00:01:17
County Attorney Rick Fox is going to join us for those two items. I'm just going to give a brief recount of what this is about. We 00:01:27
kind of started a. 00:01:31
Oh, I don't know, called a tradition or whatever, but with the Commissioner Sharp had his Project Elvis, which was kind of a code 00:01:38
name for animal care and control. That was kind of not public at the time that we were doing it. And for the last four or five, 00:01:45
six months, we've been kicking around Project Runaround, which is what I'm going to unveil here right now, which is. 00:01:53
That the Commissioners of the Council jointly have been looking long and hard for space to fulfill some of our needs. 00:02:01
Everyone in the county knows that the former City County building. 00:02:11
Is in absolute need of repair. We're here at length about that from our owners, representatives, the Envoy group momentarily on 00:02:16
that. 00:02:20
But we have identified a piece of real estate, beautiful piece of real estate that we're going to pursue the purchase of. So 00:02:25
project runaround was about 120 W Spring Street, which is the Chase building, the Chase building and the parking lot behind it, 00:02:31
the Circle K. So just a brief summary. We're going to get into details on this down the road. The reason I bring this up at this 00:02:38
moment is that during the Envoy presentation, you're going to hear reference to the Annex over and over again. And the Annex is 00:02:44
the Chase Building. 00:02:51
22,176 square feet, four floors. There are current tenants within the building. It is our intent to honor those leases and have 00:02:58
those burned out gradually over the next few years we'll be getting some revenue from the tenants on that that we intend to put 00:03:07
into a non recurring fund for building maintenance. 45 current parking spaces as compared to the 27th we currently have at the. 00:03:17
County building with the. 00:03:27
Capability of increasing that to 70 parking spaces downtown if we were to ever remove the drive through banking corridor. Of 00:03:31
course all these plans are are in motion. I mean there might be utility having that drive through for tax payment purposes and 00:03:38
things like that down the road. The purchase price agreed upon is $8,650,000. 00:03:46
We're estimating somewhere between $500 million for remodeling on that as well. The primary funding on that's going to be through 00:03:54
the cumulative capital development tax that was imposed last year. So we feel like there's a real good fit with the parts of the 00:04:00
revenue that we have coming in on that. So we're not anticipating the need for any tax increase to pay for this building. We also 00:04:06
have some leftover American Relief Program Act that we're going to put towards the initial payment on that. So we would 00:04:12
anticipate. 00:04:19
Signing the contract on that momentarily. 00:04:26
And later this year, handing out details for transition occupancy, which will begin as early as 2025 for some of the office space 00:04:29
and as late as perhaps 20312032 on the 1st floor for the Chase building if they execute their option for renewal on the lease. But 00:04:36
again, in the meantime, we're going to be capturing rent revenue off of that. 00:04:44
So we'll be around to answer questions on that after the meeting. Right now want to be ripped up for? 00:04:52
5A and 5B. 00:05:00
Thank you with regards to the contract. 00:05:05
As you indicated, $8,650,000 that is subject to us obtaining the bond financing to. 00:05:10
Get the sale approved. Obviously, we have to have the financing in order to purchase the building. This contract's been reviewed 00:05:22
by Barnes and Thornburg. Steve Langdon on behalf of the County Council and myself. 00:05:30
And so it's a 21 page agreement and. 00:05:40
We would be here to 4:00 if. 00:05:45
We went through all the terms of the agreement. 00:05:48
I will tell you the legal counsel has approved it and we've been through it in detail with regards to the terms and we're looking 00:05:52
for approval by the commissioners. 00:05:57
OK. And so at this moment again, the Commissioners meeting within this joint meeting are asked to consider that one thing I didn't 00:06:03
mention, I'm sure. 00:06:07
Mine is what are you going to move over there? And it's going to be basically a move of the taxes minus the clerk's office. 00:06:11
So the idea is that, and again, I don't wanna steal they all Thunder, but we're gonna be talking about expansion of the courts 00:06:19
over the next decade. And so trying to empty out as much space from the building that we've had as it goes under information 00:06:25
replacement. 00:06:30
So down the road we'll be having the. 00:06:37
Everybody but you ought to be the recording, the auditor, or the treasure. 00:06:43
The assessor's office and other folks that we'd be bringing in there. 00:06:45
So. 00:06:49
I do have just I'm sure it's going to be asked as far as the where appraisals done on the property. 00:06:51
How there was this price established our appraisals going to be needed for this property that. 00:06:58
I know it's going to be asked. 00:07:02
Appraisals were obtained on the property and. 00:07:04
There the top appraisal was. 00:07:10
8,650,000 The other appraisal was below that. 00:07:14
Statutorily, in terms of the Commissioners, umm. 00:07:21
You're looking at a statute that would require the average of the two appraisals in terms of the financing, how this is being set 00:07:26
up. We've set it up with a building corporation. That corporation has already been set up and I have the statement here for you to 00:07:32
approve here in just a minute. 00:07:38
And so the corporation is the one purchasing the building. And so therefore they're not bound by the average of the two 00:07:46
appraisals. And so this is what was needed in order to purchase the building. 00:07:54
8,000,525 they were not very far off. The other one, the lower one was 8,000,400 and something so. 00:08:03
We get the exact numbers. 00:08:15
Building corporation. I don't remember the low and I know it was very close. 00:08:17
That's fine. 00:08:26
All right, so if there are no. 00:08:28
For the discussion on that, I'll look for a motion to approve. 00:08:31
Signage of desk contractors that was in the contract. 00:08:35
So moved. 00:08:38
Second, all in favor? 00:08:39
All righty. And as a follow up on the building corporation that was set up, I have. 00:08:43
A bill here from the state of Indiana for $94.00 that I need you all to approve if you would. And then I'll pass this on to 00:08:50
Susanna who will prepare the warrant, send it on to our auditor for payment, and we'll take care of the state. Motion to approve. 00:08:58
And I'll second, OK, Again, that's 94 dollars, 94.00, correct? That is correct. All in favor. 00:09:06
And the last item I have is a contract from Stifel. 00:09:17
And Stifle is the company that will be marketing the bonds. And so it's a standard contract that all the bonds that we've had 00:09:21
issued in the past. 00:09:26
So asking for your approval there. 00:09:33
Motion to approve. I'll second. Motion to second, All in favor. 00:09:37
Aye, and I'll get your signatures after the meeting. 00:09:41
And Ricky mentioned about forming the building Corporation. Is that part, that part of what we just approved or is that a 00:09:46
separate? 00:09:49
OK, Yeah. 00:09:54
That's good. The deal. 00:09:55
Thank you. 00:10:00
All right. So we'll move on to our presentation from Envoy. Again, part of the process has been hiring a building representative. 00:10:02
Again, that's going to pay for our CCD funds that we have. 00:10:08
Implemented last year, coming in this year as well and. 00:10:16
We were not quite daily with Dale, but at least every other week we all get together at least a couple times. We. 00:10:20
I have a discussion so the presentation we have today, all the members up here did get a printed out copy of this as well. 00:10:28
Can I make one of those available to the process of logic worse? 00:10:36
That further take place. 00:10:41
Thank you. I'm excited to be here today. Last time we were before you, we were starting to ask the questions about what can we do 00:10:43
to move this building forward. Thinking about three options. Do we keep the building and completely rehab it? Do we look at a 00:10:51
partial rehab or do we look at a new build? So that's the lens we've been looking at as we've started to evaluate this building 00:10:58
and I'm excited to see we're already making steps forward with the with the annex as we go through. 00:11:06
Go through this presentation, a lot of that will start to make sense of how these these pieces can fit together. I will give the 00:11:14
caveat that anything in this presentation is not fine. This is very schematic, but it goes to prove the point of where we're at 00:11:21
and hope and help us to make decisions going going forward. 00:11:28
You know, last time we talked, we also talked about what about structure of the building, what about the environmental 00:11:36
considerations, asbestos, lead paint. 00:11:40
All the things we might want to think about, we're going to run through some of that here today too, just so you can see the depth 00:11:44
we've gone into to understand this building, understand what we need to do. So here's a quick agenda of what we'll run through, 00:11:50
and I'm going to turn this over to Brittany to talk through. 00:11:55
Some of our home. 00:12:02
Thank you, Dale. 00:12:07
As now mentioned, this has been a joint effort with multiple. 00:12:09
Hands involved Envoy that Dale and I are here for. We are owners, representatives. We're also here today with Michelle Allen 00:12:13
Reese, which has been the architect throughout this process. S and ME did the asbestos and LED study. We had Ameresco come in that 00:12:20
evaluated the mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems also referred to throughout the presentation as MEP. And then KPFF came 00:12:27
in and did a simple analysis of the current judicial center. 00:12:33
This has been a long ongoing process. As Dale mentioned, we've taken a look at all of the analysis that were performed. We have 00:12:42
met along with Michelle Allen Reitz to go through and interview a different department and and get their voice and opinions heard 00:12:48
for what they need as far as space. What they're looking at is for anticipation of growth. We've taken all of this information 00:12:54
that we received through the different reports and analysis that were performed and compiled this presentation in today that you 00:13:00
will be receiving. 00:13:06
As Dale also mentioned, we did take a look through the lens of three options. 00:13:13
As going through with this presentation with that being a partial remodel, a complete rehabilitation of the current building and 00:13:17
then a new construction building. 00:13:20
I'm going to walk through some of the findings and assumptions that we have for the asbestos and lead study, the structural 00:13:29
analysis. 00:13:32
The review of the mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems and then I'm going to hand it over to Angie who is going to go 00:13:35
through the space cleaning analysis and deal will kind of wrap up with the overall conclusion of what we have for our lien costs 00:13:40
and go through our three options. 00:13:44
First, I would like to discuss the finding the assumptions that we have for the asbestos and lead study as an. 00:13:51
And get taken care of. It's another thing that they found was lead based paint. A lot of this was in downstairs in the metal cage 00:14:33
and the maintenance offices. There was also an other paint throughout the building. You can see the metal Cafe and maintenance 00:14:40
office is one of them. In the basement throughout the building there's different tiles that also came up for having lead paint. 00:14:47
They also found other materials that were located as you can see on here, that were classified as just other regulated materials 00:14:55
and universal waste throughout the building. 00:14:59
Here are some images you can see that they included in their analysis. There were some issues of asbestos. You can see the floor 00:15:07
tiles. There was some. 00:15:11
Areas that we're concerned down in the basement, you can see where they took samples from some of the ceilings and you can see the 00:15:15
wood panelings that are located throughout the buildings where they did find that asbestos that. 00:15:20
The next thing I have is the structural analysis. KPFS came through and did a structural analysis of the whole building. 00:15:30
As well as they also looked at the current Indiana building code for existing structures, they indicated where there were some 00:15:37
that there were some standards that were not currently being met according to the ending in a building code for new structures. 00:15:43
What they found the biggest issues with the structure was mainly the 1st floor. There's a lots of slab cracking as well as water 00:15:50
infiltration because of the slab cracking on the first floors. 00:15:55
Also the entryways is where you can see that this is present of a lot of the water infiltration coming into the first floors as 00:16:01
well as the slab cracking. There's also some of the the stairwells that you can see that there's cracking because of movement and 00:16:06
shifts in the building just due to age. 00:16:11
There were some exterior issues as well, concrete falling on the canopy. Some of there was issues to some of the curtain wall 00:16:17
along the exterior of the building. 00:16:22
Here is a list of just a couple of the items that they touched. Based on that, we're not meeting code requirement due to the for 00:16:29
the 2014 Indiana building code. 00:16:33
KPF put together a list here that you can see the recommendations are color-coded based on current hazard levels. Items in wet red 00:16:42
are recommended to be addressed immediately. Items in yellow or future, and then items in green are the least areas of of needing 00:16:48
remediation right now. 00:16:54
The high things that they touched on were the paneling on the curtain wall. They said future panels could fall into the sidewalk 00:17:01
endangering public safety. They recommend replacing panels. The other big thing that I had mentioned and touched on was the 00:17:06
cracking on the 1st floor vegetables and cracks on the 1st floor where you having water infiltration come in, mainly at the 00:17:12
entrance points. 00:17:17
Here are some images that you can see. The 1st is kind of in the lower left hand corner is where you can see some deterioration 00:17:25
around the main entrance. Then you can see cracking that we have along the entrances that also as we're having water infiltration 00:17:31
come in as well as getting into the basement. 00:17:36
Then that middle image there is some cracking that we have interior close to the elevator on the 1st floor. 00:17:42
After that you can see cracking on the stairwell where it's going through the structure and then you can see on the last image is 00:17:49
where there's some cracks that are located on some of the ceilings. 00:17:54
Here is an example of where you can see how that kind of structural repair takes place. Just so a good visualization, this is the 00:18:01
closest thing that we could find of what they would do for that building. This is some structural repair on a on a garage where 00:18:08
you can see where they actually will cut sections of the structure out and work to replace it. 00:18:15
Ameresco came in and they did an analysis of the mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems. 00:18:26
The big thing that they found here when they did it, we know that HVAC, the HVAC system is something that they heavily looked at 00:18:34
when they presented theirs. We kind of broke theirs up a little bit differently and we presented theirs as going through with the 00:18:41
three options with a partial remodel, a complete rehabilitation and then a new build and looking at the partial remodel. 00:18:48
They would have to go back in a little bit more and assess to see what could be salvage as far as the current air system. 00:18:57
Go back in for electrical and see what else can be, what can be salvage and what cannot. But we know do know from their analysis 00:19:06
that the HVAC is is not in good shape. 00:19:10
Here's their assumptions that they made as well for partial remodel, complete rehabilitation, a complete rehabilitation, part of 00:19:17
it will be phase occupancy. This could be difficult, but it would be possible because they're having to go through the building 00:19:24
and look at these systems and replacing some of it would be difficult to be able to display some of the offices. 00:19:31
Here you can see we broke out. Here just some of the MEP costs. 00:19:41
This is going to also be included in the final cost that Dale is going to touch over, but you can see what it would cost just to 00:19:46
have a partial remodel, the complete rehabilitation and the new build for some of the systems. One of this that we are looking at 00:19:53
where you can see it says jail is listed on here. We do know that we would have to have some replacement with the jail, the 00:19:59
chiller as well as the boiler. So that's where you see some of that cost is right now. Some of those items are being shared. 00:20:06
And then included in this is the additional cost for the phase occupancy for that work. And I do also want to note that on top of 00:20:13
that, they do have a 20% premium for Facebook. 00:20:18
I'll go ahead right now and brings over to Angie Michelle Allen Reeds to go over the space morning. 00:20:26
Good morning. I'm Angie clear with Michelle Elements here in New Albany and. 00:20:36
Wanted to share with you a little bit about the space planning analysis that we were grateful to have the opportunity to be a part 00:20:43
of. 00:20:46
We've got a lot of historical knowledge, but we tried to approach this objectively and. 00:20:50
Talk to each department and assess what their current usage is in the building and then what their current are there. 00:20:57
They have current needs on top of how they're using it, and then also they haven't. 00:21:06
Future needs that need to be addressed as well as anticipated growth. So there's a series of. 00:21:10
Ways to look at this and. 00:21:17
We were tasked with. 00:21:19
Thinking about this in a way so that it would fit into the three categories and. 00:21:23
Our first step was assessing the current space usage and. 00:21:28
We. 00:21:33
Had to take the square footage, which is very simple to do and talk about. We need the these many more desks. We have this much 00:21:35
growth that would happen if a future court would occur, things like that. 00:21:41
What is not so easily quantifiable is the. 00:21:47
The common non tangible elements such as space, function and. 00:21:51
Within the departments between each other, such things as security, you know, within the site, the building and each court and 00:21:57
associated offices, separating the public, the inmates, the judicial circulation and the holding and waiting space for all of 00:22:04
those departments. The efficient use of these spaces. 00:22:11
The hearing rooms and then the privacy required for fair trials and efficient and. 00:22:20
There on each side so that. 00:22:26
The judges have what they need, and then the public has what they need. 00:22:34
So that was a little bit harder to quantify some of those things and that's where you'll see some of the differences in. 00:22:38
Percentages of. 00:22:45
Circulation and extra space that needs to be accounted for. The building that we have right now is very high in circulation 00:22:48
percentage. 00:22:52
And. 00:22:57
Such things as bathrooms and restrooms. 00:22:59
Hallways. 00:23:04
The mechanical spaces, all of those things are at like a 25% usage factor on the on this building that we have right now due to 00:23:06
the layout of the space and the confines of the the existing walls. If we would go to a new space that can be handled differently 00:23:13
in a much more efficient way, we can arrange things. 00:23:20
To handle it. 00:23:28
The building can be renovated and it can be improved quite a bit. It's just that these things are hard to quantify on a square 00:23:31
foot basis and we were asked to do that to be able to plug some of that into. 00:23:37
So that you have three options that can be compared. So it's quite. 00:23:44
Complex. Even though it looks very simple, when you say existing square footage and future square footage needs, there's a lot 00:23:48
that's not in writing there. 00:23:52
So if there's any questions, I'll be glad to address those separately or one-on-one if you have any. I'm not going to take you 00:23:57
through and read out all of these square footages, but what you'll see is the partial remodel addresses quite a bit less square 00:24:05
footage in order to be able to utilize that same building without the. 00:24:13
Complete overhaul of the building itself. 00:24:23
We would have less rate. Well, they'll get into that on the next stage there's we have a list of items that apply so. 00:24:27
Right here we have partial remodel in the. 00:24:36
26,000 square footage, the complete rehab at 66,000 square footage and the new building at 84. 00:24:38
1000 but then if we take out the annex, that's just been discussed. 00:24:46
Down to 62, so it's much more comparable because we can take out the spaces that are. 00:24:50
Non judicial. 00:24:55
That don't have to be in the same building. 00:24:57
Thank you, Angie. So what does this mean to everyone? Well, let's start talking about how these options compare and where we where 00:25:09
this takes us from here. 00:25:13
So if we look at a partial remodel, when we're looking at that, we're thinking about the space that's vacated by the departments 00:25:18
that would be moving across to the annex and how those faith and also the space that was vacated by the city and how that all 00:25:24
would be remodeled as part of this. And then adding on top of that the entryways that would need to be remodeled to the the main 00:25:30
entrance there and also the smaller entrance to the north to address that slab cracking issue. So that's where the partial remodel 00:25:36
takes us. 00:25:43
There is a definite amount of fluidity and how much a remodel would go on with that. If there is more space that's desired to be 00:25:50
looked at, we can certainly do that. 00:25:55
If the budget requires us to look at less space, we can look at that too. This by the program of who's moving out seem to make the 00:26:01
most sense. 00:26:06
So in a partial model, you get to retain your directors or prisoner transport between the jail and and this building. You don't 00:26:11
have to use vans, you don't have to use the passport facility, you can. 00:26:18
And keep it internal. That is a huge benefit. 00:26:26
We get to reuse the historic building. 00:26:29
And. 00:26:32
And keep it operable for for years to come. The construction cost is is lower. That's primarily due to the fact that we're 00:26:34
controlling our scope. There's just less square footage in this, so there's less cost. 00:26:40
It will have a long construction duration. This will be the most complicated option. There's lots of moving pieces because we 00:26:49
won't be touching the whole building. 00:26:53
The judicial staff will have to move multiple times. 00:26:59
When the 1st floor is being renovated, I don't necessarily see a path to this building being operable. 00:27:04
It's going to be loud. Courts should not be operating when they're jackhammering on the 1st floor. 00:27:10
Let alone if they could, we could even figure out a way to get them up to the courts with with that operation going on because 00:27:18
that damage is right in front of the elevators. 00:27:22
The other things to to think through, we will need to look at temporary space then because we will have to vacate for a while. 00:27:30
Your temporary space need is less in the partial remodel because we're just not going to have as long of a overall duration, but 00:27:37
it is it would be pretty disruptive to the courts. So we'll need to make sure we find them good accommodations. The other part is 00:27:44
this would become a phased project, the parts of the building that wouldn't necessarily be renovated. 00:27:51
They will likely need to be a subsequent project down the road. 00:27:58
But that said, we are looking at upgrading that mechanical electrical plumbing to to at least get that addressed, get the fresh 00:28:03
air addressed, get the air handlers addressed. It also includes remediation for. 00:28:09
The the basic needs of the asbestos. 00:28:17
Some things like the asbestos tile. 00:28:21
If we're not renovating an area, we really don't have to move it because we're not disturbing it, but a complete rehab as I'm 00:28:23
talking about here. 00:28:27
We have to abate everything. We have to get rid of all the asbestos tile. We have to get rid of all the asbestos and the. 00:28:32
And the HVAC system, we have to worry about the lead paint and the curtain wall. 00:28:39
Again, with that complete rehab, you get to retain your direct prisoner transport you get to. 00:28:44
You get to have the space for the crooks to grow. I mean, as you solve the space analysis in either the partial rehab, the 00:28:54
complete rehab or the new build. The annex allows us to have the space for growth. 00:29:00
Which allows this building to to meet our current need and our our future need. 00:29:07
So then we talked about a new build. A new build is where you have the most cost control because we can completely control the 00:29:15
scope. 00:29:19
Temporary workspaces wouldn't be needed. There would be an acknowledgement of there might be some some temporary pain with the 00:29:25
current building because over the next I'd say two years that would take to get a new building designed and built. 00:29:34
Something might break and we'll have to address that because we would not be going on a. 00:29:43
Proactive basis. At that point we just be using the building until something is ready. 00:29:48
Your construction duration would be shorter so long as we have land to use. Land acquisition could delay things, but if we have 00:29:54
land to use then this is the fastest path forward. 00:29:59
Your move management would be the simplest. You one day are in this building, the next day you are in the other building. 00:30:07
The thing we really want to consider with this is this building and the jail are completely intertwined. They share HVAC systems, 00:30:14
they share power system, they share a lot. So and there's a lot of upgrades needed there even in the base scenario. So we've we've 00:30:20
accounted for all of that. 00:30:26
Today, I'll just before you go for that search, I like to think of these two buildings assigning twins kind of connected at the 00:30:32
heart, yes. So that last bullet point when you say separate, what actually conceptually look like at the end of the day, would it 00:30:39
be a block house where the current city county building is? And then yes, if we were to do a new build and it was not on this 00:30:46
site, if you would pick a different site. 00:30:52
We would have to do something with the central plant. There's if you look at the horseshoe of how the jail and the city county 00:31:00
building are hooked together, in the middle there where the drive goes back is a central plan. 00:31:07
We would have to change out some equipment and right size it to this building because for example, the children, if we take away 00:31:13
the city county building, that shoulder is dramatically oversized for your needs. That's why on the slides that Brittany was 00:31:19
presenting, there was $100,000 delta on the equipment because we can get a smaller chiller. 00:31:26
But the the flip side you'll see when we go through here is then you'll have an open wall to the side of the jail and you'll have 00:31:34
a big hole. 00:31:37
So we have to fill that hole, we have to stabilize the site and we have to sure up the side into the jail so that it is enclosed, 00:31:42
inoperable. 00:31:46
So disclaimer, any of the numbers that I'm showing you, they're, they're very fluid. 00:31:54
They truly are, but we have to draw a line and where our analysis is now so we can pick a path forward. 00:31:59
A lot of these costs can be controlled through scope, through square footage, but to make an educated decision on how to move 00:32:06
forward, this is this is where our analysis is taking us. So partial remodel all, all of our options have the same table. So you 00:32:12
can see apples to apples what we're what we're considering. 00:32:19
Construction cost, soft cost, so that ends up being your contingency, developer fees, things of that nature, temporary housing. 00:32:27
That's finding a building, building it out to house the courts and support staff. 00:32:37
Our estimate doesn't contemplate all of the staff in that number, so we would have to find where we've got space for them. If 00:32:43
there's space in this building, if there's space we can free up in the annex faster, we have to consider that. 00:32:50
We've included the abatement, we've included the structural repair. 00:32:59
We've also included the the jail MEP remodel. 00:33:05
To a total of just over $18 million. 00:33:10
Now go to a complete rehab. 00:33:14
This is essentially gutting the building down to the concrete decks. This is a concrete building with. 00:33:18
Basically just concrete floors or posts. 00:33:29
This would take it down to that and build it back. 00:33:31
All new electrical, all new plumbing, all new all new all new everything. New curtain wall. 00:33:34
Brand new building, just reusing the structure that's underneath. 00:33:40
We'd still fix the structure, we'd fix, you know what's going on the 1st floor with. In either of these scenarios, we look at 00:33:44
adding capacity to make this building better for the long term. At elevators that you know are appropriately sized. Add lobby 00:33:51
space so people waiting for court actually have a place to wait instead of in the hallway. 00:33:58
Either of these scenarios, look at. Look at that. 00:34:06
This comes to a total of 33,600,000. There's some room on this one to move, but not a lot of. 00:34:09
And that's just the nature of the nature of it. If we take that building down to its structure, it's going to take a lot to put it 00:34:19
back. 00:34:23
There is a note on here too. It doesn't include the seismic retrofit. One of the things KPF identified in their chart was the 00:34:29
building does not meet the current structural requirements of seismic design. 00:34:35
I'm not trying to say your buildings unsafe. 00:34:43
I'm not trying to say that at all, but your building was designed in 1959 and built in 1960. It was not built to today's 00:34:45
standards. 00:34:48
So that is something that I want to put out there just for Full disclosure. 00:34:53
By code, you don't have to do anything about it, it's not a requirement. 00:34:57
But if seismic is of concern. 00:35:00
I would steer you towards a new build because the seismic retrofit could be in the 10s of millions of dollars. 00:35:05
And that would just destroy any budget for reuse of the facility. 00:35:11
So then a new build, you'll notice that there is a. 00:35:19
About a 10% cost premium to get a new build keeping the same square footage. As Angie mentioned, in a new scenario we could get 00:35:22
more efficient with our space. So we could get that store footage number down some. And if that number was was too much, we've got 00:35:29
more flexibility to drive it down because we can look at what's our program. 00:35:36
But apples to apples, this is our new build number. Now, there's some things you don't have to worry about in this situation. We 00:35:44
don't have to worry about temporary housing. 00:35:48
The abatement actually becomes a lot simpler because we don't. 00:35:54
There's friable and non friable when it comes to asbestos. 00:35:58
So we only have to worry about the friable when it comes to don't full demolition. 00:36:02
The stuff that's adhered in place and is not going to go airborne. 00:36:07
We don't necessarily have to abate the same way, so long as we're sending it to a certified landfill. 00:36:11
Most of the people that would demo a building like this use a certified landfill to begin with, so it's not really a concern. 00:36:18
So there are some other costs we didn't factor into the muddy the water a little bit. 00:36:26
Fixtures, furniture and equipment. So desks, TV's, office furniture. Usually in a build like this, people would want to upgrade 00:36:31
that. We didn't include it because that just made the water kind of kind of muddy. It's certainly something we can look at, but 00:36:37
not for this, this conversation. Same thing with information technology, access controls. That's a whole whole other concept we 00:36:44
can talk about once we make a decision on on how we want to approach this book. We all still include site acquisition. I know the 00:36:50
county has property. 00:36:57
Maybe we want to use it, maybe we don't. 00:37:05
We could look at a different site, but that would increase the cost of the new poll option. 00:37:07
So just some. 00:37:12
Top level considerations, partial remodel at your lowest upfront cost, but you're gonna have to plan for the future on that one. 00:37:13
Complete rehab. It is slightly less expensive than a new build, but. 00:37:21
There's a lot of. 00:37:26
Intricacies there to making that work. 00:37:28
In terms of moving people around and just making all the move management work. 00:37:31
And then a new build. Logistically it is the easiest, but. 00:37:36
That is, is not inexpensive as well. 00:37:41
So and. 00:37:46
Commissioners asked me to to provide an update of what we what we've spent so far out of the. 00:37:48
Out of the revenue we have available. 00:37:55
And that's that's the sum total. 00:37:57
$287,500. 00:38:00
Beyond that, after we move to the next phase, once we decide on a path forward, we'll want to engage a site civil designer, which 00:38:04
we've we've got estimated in there and. 00:38:10
We'll also want to further engage. 00:38:18
Ameresco to. 00:38:21
OK, we've got a path. Let's figure out this this mechanical electrical plumbing to the teeth so we understand what we're getting 00:38:23
into. 00:38:26
So the path forward of. 00:38:32
Here we're looking to you all to understand. 00:38:34
What you're thinking, What's our next step? 00:38:40
Which scenario makes the most sense for the? 00:38:43
So the county, what budget makes the most sense for the county, even if the direction is maybe like this path, please work with 00:38:46
our financial counselor to to understand what the capability is wonderful. That is the step we want to take. We've come to a kind 00:38:53
of a decision point. So we open it up to to you all to make it. 00:38:59
So thank you. Thank you for all your work today. That last slide was at our request so that. 00:39:08
Taxpayers should see where that CCD money has gone in the year 2024. 00:39:15
Having had a preview of this, knowing there might be a little bit of sticker shock. 00:39:20
Glad that Brad had EMS personnel saying anybody today just in case we might need that. 00:39:25
All kidding aside, I mean, I think at this point we have the information that we need. 00:39:32
As a body. 00:39:37
Commissioners and council jointly and everybody in this room has a stake, everybody in this county has a stake. So I think we have 00:39:39
the information that we need to make a decision with regards to how we're going to progress from here. And again, I'd like to have 00:39:44
that those conversations both individually and the public meetings and. 00:39:50
Have somebody hammered out by the time the leaves are. 00:39:56
Turning on the trees this year and see which way we're going to go with it. One final thing I wanted to articulate because we 00:39:58
discussed it before under each of these three scenarios. 00:40:03
The purchase of the annex made sense because it considerably reduced the cost of each of those correct potential options. By 00:40:09
bringing the annex online, it made the square footage of this building makes sense. 00:40:15
Otherwise, we have been looking at a larger new build or some sort of addition to this building. 00:40:22
Which I know have been explored before And then we'd end up with two kind of narrow buildings parallel to each other. The annex 00:40:31
solved a lot of pieces for us and each under each scenario, the cost of that annex work footage was considerably below partial 00:40:37
rehab, total rehab and new construction costs. So. 00:40:44
Anyway. 00:40:51
My comment is just, you know, I charge everybody here, everybody in the county, think about, let us know your thoughts. We need 00:40:53
that decision to move forward on it. 00:40:57
I do have questions. 00:41:02
On the slide, new build under the comparison options. 00:41:04
There is under temporary housing. You guys have nothing there. 00:41:09
Is that because that building would be on a different site? Because that was the assumption, correct, that we would build a new 00:41:14
build on a different site? If we wanted to reuse the current site, then yes, we would have to look at temporary housing under that 00:41:19
scenario as well. 00:41:24
OK, that's gonna be my question. Is it possible to? 00:41:30
Do a new build on the same site to bring that temporary housing back into the discussion and the temporary number we gave is based 00:41:34
on just average market rates down here with a three-year duration and a tenant build out a. 00:41:43
If their space is available that we can use that are. 00:41:53
Under county control or you know someone. 00:41:58
That wants to partner with the county that can help us out. 00:42:02
That number can go down a lot. 00:42:05
I didn't want to present you a number that was low. 00:42:08
But also, we're not pretty. 00:42:11
Numbers that are unrealistically high. Trying trying to trying to strike that that balance of just giving you some some real 00:42:13
thought, real input here. 00:42:18
I think maybe that is another. 00:42:23
I don't know, maybe a 3A where we need to understand the demo cost. 00:42:26
Of that and what it would take to whatever it would take to build on that side demo cost and temporary household is that something 00:42:32
you can put together like a three Eddy within the presentation we've got the demo cost on this option we've got the temporary 00:42:40
housing in this option so yeah we also the demo cost is already in there got you but the only so the only thing not in here is the 00:42:49
temporary house right these options are meant to be holistic views so this option taking this would take the. 00:42:57
Current building down to the ground. 00:43:07
Turn basically turn the site to seat and straw, just green space and stabilize that wall on the side of the the jail so they're 00:43:10
not just left with a exposed side of the jail. 00:43:16
I have a request I. 00:43:26
Do you have a longevity for each of these options? If we do a partial, it's going to last 10 years complete and a new build. 00:43:30
So a new building. 00:43:38
I mean depending on how we want to build it. 00:43:41
It's easy to say you've got 20-30 years of life before you're starting to think about upgrades. The structure itself, I mean. 00:43:43
I'd say it'd probably be built out of steel in the last. 00:43:52
Quite a while, but usually that 20 or 30 year windows when your mechanical systems start to start to fail and we'll start to have 00:43:55
some real repair costs. Again, we don't have any systems picked or designed. So there's decisions that can be made that swing that 00:44:03
one way or another a little bit, but just off the cuff and on a partial and a complete remnant remodel. 00:44:11
It depends how much we want to put into the mechanical systems. 00:44:20
The number that we looked at has all of like. 00:44:25
Direct replacement of the systems, so the actual units themselves we should still be looking at a similar longevity. 00:44:30
But we're not reducting it, we're not replumbing it, we're not rewiring it unless we have to. So those types of systems would not 00:44:39
have that long. 00:44:44
Right, OK. 00:44:49
Another another question for you under these scenarios that you have listed. 00:44:50
What has the most impact to the judicial courts and system and what has the least impact? I think you covered it, but I just want 00:44:55
to make sure I understood. Functionally the least impact would be a new build on a different site. 00:45:01
They can keep operating in their current capacity and their current building, and then one day they. 00:45:08
Move to the to the new courts. 00:45:13
Most impactful would be the gut rehab option. It's just it's going to be the longest time that they're out of the courts. 00:45:16
The partial falls in between. It depends how much we want to spend on the corporate force I. 00:45:25
And we'll want to work closely with the judiciary because. 00:45:32
Courthouses I've worked on, the annexes I've worked on, we've got to be really sensitive to the course and their trial load 00:45:37
because we don't want to do anything that would give them 'cause for a mistrial. 00:45:42
Any noise, any movement, we don't want to do anything to district them. 00:45:48
Although in the long run. 00:45:53
A new site would require transportation to be an ongoing right. So I was going to, I was going to ask you, Mr. Kneel, is there any 00:45:55
appetite from either one of these bodies to build a building off site? 00:46:02
I thought, I thought we were pretty much on the same page that this is we want to stay down. 00:46:10
At that. So I think if doable, people want to stay downtown, myself included. But we thought it would be proved. Sure, all options 00:46:15
understood. Just making a fresh look at it. 00:46:20
Yeah, No, I didn't. 00:46:25
Even have transportation from the jail across. 00:46:28
The shorter the better. That's the only thing that's actually missing here is. 00:46:34
I guess you would have to add somewhere between 3:00 and 4:00 and a half, $1,000,000 to the temporary housing for a new building 00:46:40
on the same footprint, if you will, on the same property. That's I think he wants to stay in the same footprint, yes. OK, Yeah, 00:46:46
'cause I just. 00:46:51
Didn't know if there was any appetite to say hey, we're going to move it because I didn't think we were there. 00:46:57
Thank you. And again trying to take the the site cost out of the out of the equation because that really could move the needle for 00:47:01
us. 00:47:06
A lot, one way or another. 00:47:12
And we don't have a necessarily a spot that we would want to put it. 00:47:15
So trying to take this really complex animal down to. 00:47:19
These three slides. 00:47:25
I noticed in the cork space that that increased by 50% and it looks like that's there's no options to this. So what was that based 00:47:29
on and how much timeline does that give us for the courts with this forecast? 00:47:37
Angie, correct me if I'm wrong, that we were looking at a 20 year horizon when we talked to the courts. 00:47:45
So the idea was to build out an extra. 00:47:52
Court space and to give it adequate space for the support staff as well. 00:47:56
Currently, the support staff and the jury rooms and the break rooms, it all kind of blends together and functionally it's really 00:48:04
difficult. So yeah, some of those spaces got quite a bit larger square footage walls. So they all. 00:48:12
Function similar to our biggest 4th. So it will just work better for the for the judiciary overall, but it does give us time to 00:48:21
expand the court. It does give us room to. 00:48:26
Add the smaller. 00:48:32
Kind of trial courts, not the full jury courts, but just kind of the hearing room type courts. It does give us room to add those 00:48:35
as well. 00:48:38
Does this include moving what you call the auxiliary court services the. 00:48:45
Adult probation. Juvenile. 00:48:50
Community corrections down to the city County building. Is this Is that part of the plan ancient? 00:48:53
You are. 00:49:00
OK. 00:49:03
Yeah, the if we didn't do, then yes, we got the space for that. 00:49:07
Partial OK. 00:49:10
The partial as well as even the complete renovation. 00:49:13
Complete renovation? Does that make room? 00:49:17
Only with a new build. 00:49:20
OK. 00:49:22
And that comes back to some of the space savings we get with a new footprint. Our current footprint is long and skinny, which 00:49:23
means we just have a lot of circulation space that eats away at that eats away at that building. In a new scenario, we could 00:49:30
potentially be a little bit more efficient with our our floor plan. 00:49:36
Would you? 00:49:48
When you. 00:49:49
Talk to the people at Rice Building. 00:49:51
What's the feel for that building? Was there any kind of cost estimate to maybe bring that up to any kind of standards or any 00:49:57
renovation or? 00:50:01
Was that was that part of the equation? 00:50:07
A lot of. 00:50:16
Very good information. So my recommendation is we all go home and read through this three times. Sleep on it. 00:50:17
We will workshop at some point in the Republican but. 00:50:25
Both formally and formally and will continue to work with you in an interim on fine tuning options. 00:50:30
As we get information, feedbacks, market issues. 00:50:37
And if you have any thoughts after this meeting. 00:50:42
Please feel free to reach out and I'm happy to happy to discuss any of the any of the options. 00:50:46
Just one quick comment. 00:50:53
The construction cost on the. 00:50:55
New build and, and the other scenarios that is based on after you talk to all of the office holders, department heads and 00:50:59
everybody else you came together, you put that together, did you talk to like the needs assessment? That's how you got to that 00:51:05
number the construction cost is based on. 00:51:11
As an envoy, we're I'm your honors Rep on this project, but I'm also a builder. So this is based on historic cost data for us 00:51:19
extrapolated out a couple years, so inflated out a couple years I. 00:51:26
And then we also loaded in those other costs being the structural repair and things of that nature to end up with, with that 00:51:34
total, total cost. So that's where we got our our cost numbers from. 00:51:41
If you actually divided it out on like a square footage basis, that. 00:51:49
Partial option on a square footage basis is a little bit less than the new build or the. 00:51:55
The complete rehab only because it becomes a tenant finish type situation and some of those spaces as opposed to a gut rehab and 00:52:02
that's a very different number. 00:52:09
Understood, the only thing else I would have is I'm not sure I have this information. Would be a comp. 00:52:16
Of the timeline in which the construction duration would be. So if you did option one, this is how much it would cost. And that 00:52:21
way we would understand if we were to move people out, how long they would have to stay temporarily before they be able to move 00:52:27
back in versus a new build, partial build or a partial rehab or a full rehab. I don't have those timelines, but would love to have 00:52:33
those. 00:52:38
With different scenarios that are different financing options. 00:52:44
As well you guys get into the weeds on that as the council on that it's possible that some of the build out. 00:52:49
Can be the owner of some of the mechanicals to reduce some of the initial overhead costs. 00:52:59
You know my feeling on this, if we feel come to the conclusion it's the right thing to do, to do a new build and. 00:53:06
It exceeds what we need to do to get a referendum. Then let's have a reference, let's have a public discussion and let's put it 00:53:12
before people and. 00:53:16
As I as I started out with when I started this discussion. 00:53:22
I presented numbers. I know the numbers are what sticks and everybody said. 00:53:26
Please don't let those be an impediment to to deciding which path we think is best, because there's a lot of room for control. 00:53:30
Either if we want to do more renovation in the partial, if we want to do less on a build option. 00:53:41
There's lots on the table, we just need to pick our our path and start understanding any of the numbers are. 00:53:48
Accurate 100% the. 00:53:55
Gap between the different scenarios I think is going to play out. 00:53:58
You know accurately that makes sense that the order of magnitude between vicinity. 00:54:01
Accurate enough for us to work through the process. Well, I think that we've had this analysis done twice in both of the analysis 00:54:07
have come back within. 00:54:11
They're very, very close. It's so we know we're looking. 00:54:16
In the range. 00:54:21
Yeah. And we're, we're two years after on these. So we're still a little bit a little bit less on the research. 00:54:23
Yeah, I don't know. I don't remember exactly, but I know they're in the ballpark. 00:54:34
Anything else for Mr. Davis at present? I know he'll be here afterwards. Thank you guys for driving down today. 00:54:39
Thank you all for your presentation, your work on this. I mean, everything feedback I've got today is that everything's been done. 00:54:46
Very, very. 00:54:49
Professionally and it was a great deal of concern for. 00:54:54
Not only current space teams for again 1520 years out, which is the way that I think we want to project together. We want this to 00:54:59
be a generation project. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. 00:55:05
All right. 00:55:12
#2 on the official agenda. Jail maintenance specialist. 00:55:16
By the way, Sheriff, they were going to close the hole in the building. 00:55:23
In the jail after completely does that, there wouldn't be an open hole in the jail. I didn't think you'd fix that, no. I figured 00:55:26
they put up a temporary wallet. Maybe it hurt and I don't know. 00:55:30
So we took that in consideration. 00:56:08
So before you, we are looking at this position to have our own maintenance position, be it a specialist pay in the jail. 00:56:10
I've been asking for additional appropriations within our budget. 00:56:18
So that's what's before you today. 00:56:22
I'll make a motion to approve the. 00:56:28
Jail maintenance specialist position. 00:56:30
And that's primarily a council decision of the Council, yes, so. 00:56:34
I I think we need to be. 00:56:40
I think we need to have more information because I think we need to understand, does this impact in any way the building authority 00:56:44
budget? 00:56:47
So until I'm until I understand. 00:56:51
If there's any savings from the building authorities budget. 00:56:55
I'm not ready to approve this yet. 00:57:01
So I think that's where I'm at. I'm not saying no, I'm just saying I think I need a little more information. How much money is it 00:57:06
all in 55,000 I believe, but I can double check that. 00:57:12
65 I was looking in the budget, I think it was. I think I seen it. 00:57:19
Called out in the jail budget. 00:57:25
Specifically. 00:57:29
To clarify, you said 55? Yeah, $55,619. That's just for the salary. 00:57:31
Then we have we also be living on the highway. That's just the salary. Then we'd have benefits on top of that, so another 20% on 00:57:39
top of that. 00:57:43
I don't know. I mean should there be some savings that come out of the out of the? 00:57:48
Out of the building authority budget, if that's up to the commissioners and you all to discuss that, if we approve this, I don't 00:57:54
know. That's just a question that I have. I'm looking at the functional side of the jail and what we need to do. And I think even 00:57:59
before it was presented, if I'm not mistaken, 80% of the work of maintenance has done the job and the building authority 00:58:04
standpoint. 00:58:09
I'm not going to speak on behalf of their budget or what they do. You know, we've worked with them on a lot of things and we'll 00:58:14
continue to work with them, but we just feel over the last. 00:58:18
Several months up to six months, eight months, we've been analyzed this type of position, look at the future needs now as well 00:58:23
with the Frankenziger building. We just feel this is an important step in that right direction to do this. And the problem is, is 00:58:31
we've sort of put a freeze on hiring, but you're asking for a new position. So and I understand, I really understand your need and 00:58:38
I understand, I just want to understand if there's any way that we can cut anything out of to cover some of this cost. 00:58:45
With the building authority provide, I'm sorry. 00:58:54
Go ahead with the building authority. Provide any. 00:58:57
Maintenance at all? 00:59:01
No, they do provide maintenance, but after this position. 00:59:04
Not within the jail, no. My hope is to still, like I said, continue to work with the development authority in terms of that. We 00:59:08
would help them, they would help us if they so choose. We work through the commissions in terms of that needs to be in a contract 00:59:13
or not. So, yeah, so. 00:59:17
We just need to have the ability and authority to have our maintenance done in the jail that we need to be doing. 00:59:23
Do you currently? 00:59:29
Contract out for maintenance. 00:59:31
That this position could be doing. 00:59:33
I believe so. I don't have those figures if we do. 00:59:36
So I think there's some things, but not a lot. 00:59:40
Could you, Sheriff, could you speak to the urgency of this position? At one point in time, I thought it was going to be built, 00:59:44
trying to be built into the 2025 budget. 00:59:48
And then use, is there maintenance that's not being done timely? Is there some issue that brought this urgency up to, you know, to 00:59:54
today? 01:00:00
And. 01:00:07
Is there going to be any additional cost that you would need any budget other than the salary? You know, obviously if there's 01:00:09
maintenance that's going to be taking place in the jail, is there a, is there a line item already existing for that? Does that 01:00:14
have to be expanded or are you going to need more if, if that liability relied on the building authority at some point in time and 01:00:19
not shifting? 01:00:25
You know is I don't, my question is, is it going to stop at the salary and benefits or is there going to need to be more? No, 01:00:31
there is already a line item, I think a maintenance line item within our budget. 01:00:35
At this point in time though, I don't see no additional cost currently speaking in terms of just the salary and the benefits to 01:00:41
that position. We are covering that within our budget already. We have put that into our 2025 budget and work that in. 01:00:48
If there's future needs for any cost of equipment maintenance, we'll work through that within our budget. 01:00:57
I'm not saying you couldn't come back and ask for cost like that. I don't know. I can't forecast that particular. But at this 01:01:03
point in time, no. 01:01:06
That answers your question. It does, partially. What about the urgency? 01:01:10
There's a lot of questions there, but there is what I just explained a minute ago, there was technical work that. 01:01:16
You all proved us to spend $192,000 and some of the technical work that we need to do needs to be done now. We were supposed to 01:01:21
start that project last Monday and so we've had to put that off until we work through this issue. So there will be additional 01:01:27
costs that I have to come back to you all probably if this is not done because that work has to be completed and I don't know what 01:01:34
those costs would be. It's technical work. Like I said, it's not a contract with the building authority. 01:01:40
They've done this work before, but it's not in their contract and and. 01:01:48
They did not want to do it this time. That's her choice. I'm not harping on that. But yes, so that's that's the urgency. 01:01:51
Can I suggest that we. 01:01:59
Just table this for a few minutes and have the building authority address some of these questions and then come back to this after 01:02:01
we understand if the building authority has any. 01:02:08
You already have a motion. Yeah, we have a motion. 01:02:16
I'm just. 01:02:20
Just a thought. 01:02:21
Well, I mean, I think we're. 01:02:24
Most likely it's heading to a vote which I. 01:02:27
I understand. I believe that the position needs, personally, I believe the position needs needs to fall under the office of the 01:02:31
sheriff for the maintenance because there's a 24/7 operation. Needs are different than maybe what the building authority can 01:02:38
provide it at some point in time, communication, things that are out of your control, yet you still have a operation that's unique 01:02:46
that needs to be taken care of. So I believe that this needs to be there. 01:02:53
Do I have the information right in front of me to make that decision? No, but I'm not against it. I think it needs to be there and 01:03:01
I'm in the same spot. I just want to hear from the building authority before we take a vote. That's all. That's where. And I'd 01:03:06
like to hear from them before we take a vote. That's where I'm at. I'm not saying let's just have Aaron come up. Are you 01:03:10
representing the building authority today? Come on up. 01:03:15
I do. I do want to first address the work he's talking about in that it would. 01:03:27
Require we figured about 30 to 40 man hours, so we had done the exact same job before. 01:03:33
In a much less. 01:03:39
It was much less work. It was something we could go over and get done and still we still felt we could fulfill our contractual 01:03:41
obligations on the other end. 01:03:46
This would be. 01:03:51
And I don't want to work unreasonable. Sounds bad, but it it would be an unreasonable request for us to be able to pull two guys 01:03:54
over there for three days worth of work and then not have them performing. 01:03:59
Anything else throughout the building? 01:04:06
We've also never not performed any work. We know that the jails of 24 or seven operation, we had two guys there on July the 4th at 01:04:08
11:15 PM until 3:00 AM fixing. 01:04:14
An issue that we had through Siemens with. 01:04:21
An alarm that was going off and we had to get the Siemens guy out here that evening to get everything fixed. We believe there's 01:04:25
ongoing stuff which you guys know about updated you guys on but so there's there's never been a request 24/7 that we haven't 01:04:31
responded to at least my knowledge. And you know we me and Steve have never had you know we've never had to have a conversation 01:04:37
about the building authority not our. 01:04:43
Contract. So the other problem that rears it said here for someone doing and it doesn't doesn't matter to me either way, but. 01:04:50
You guys said it, you guys have said it. We have a Siamese twin of buildings here and we have shared. 01:04:59
Maintenance between those buildings, we have shared systems, so if they hire someone to come in and do maintenance. 01:05:07
It would need to be very specific in what they were maintaining and not maintaining. One were under contract to maintain certain 01:05:15
systems. A lot of those are shared. So I don't think it would behoove us, them or you guys to have someone working on a system on 01:05:22
this side of the building that can in turn disrupt the that runs the other side of the building as well. They may end up working 01:05:30
against each other there rather than working together. So those are just some of the problems I foresee. 01:05:38
But you know, if it's not, if it's not going to cost any more money than the salary, that means you're hiring a 40 hour a week 01:05:46
laborer. 01:05:50
You're also hiring one guy for a 24/7 operation that I assume is just going to be. 01:05:56
Those are all things you guys, if we allow the sheriff to do this, can you cut your budget in any way to cover part of that cost? 01:06:02
I don't see where they would be. I don't see where their maintenance person would be working on anything that's in our contract. 01:06:11
So. 01:06:14
I can't trying to. I mean this is all thrown on me here in the last five minutes. So I'm trying to work my way through it too, 01:06:18
just like you guys are. Think of it the other way. What about any work that you did with the jail that you no longer have to 01:06:23
perform? Is there any savings in that? 01:06:27
Well, we don't anything that's. 01:06:33
We, we perform all of our contractual obligations. 01:06:35
And the only thing we've done is save the jail some money by handling some things that are not contractual obligations in the 01:06:40
past. 01:06:43
So we've done, I mean, it's usually small stuff. I mean, last time when we took those panels out, it was a much smaller amount of 01:06:48
work. 01:06:51
If we're over there doing something and they say, hey, this needs coffee, you know, there's there's small stuff that we do that's 01:06:55
not a contractual obligation. We just do because we're there and it's a quick job and we can do it. We try to be careful. 01:07:00
So it doesn't change our contract any. 01:07:06
And I'm not trying to speak against the Charles decision, but I don't feel that it changes any maintenance out of our contract. 01:07:10
Nor do I feel it should, again because the systems are married and the buildings married, so we would prefer not to have. 01:07:18
Someone working on the HVAC over there, that's ramific. 01:07:25
From our building. 01:07:29
And vice versa. I don't know what level of expertise the person they would hire would be, but. 01:07:32
You know, that's something else that would need to be looked at. 01:07:39
Unless it was a change to our contract where we weren't handling certain things and then obviously that would. 01:07:45
Not the the bigger systems in my opinion since they play together. 01:07:52
I mean that's what y'all would be looking at in my opinion. 01:07:56
D My bias question. 01:08:01
We have a contract. So when you say contract, what do you mean by contract? 01:08:39
We have a maintenance contract with you all with the commissioners to maintain the jail and then clearly and clearly outlines you 01:08:44
should have it, but it clearly outlines what all we're responsible for and then some. There are some some special equipment over 01:08:51
there that we are not responsible for. Some of that being in the kitchen equipment and like door locks are very specific to the 01:08:58
jail that we don't handle so. 01:09:05
And I guess since we have the contract, maybe we need to sit down with the building authority and the sheriff and then talking 01:09:13
looking these and then pull these out of the contract and then, you know, give those to the to the sheriff. 01:09:20
Yeah, that way everybody knows what their job is. 01:09:28
And all the issues are covered. That's how I feel about. 01:09:31
I agree. I don't think we're. 01:09:36
I don't think we're to the ready. I don't think we're to the point of making a decision here about the money until we understand 01:09:37
the contract and the responsibilities. Yeah, I know. I'm not. So I have a question. 01:09:45
For Sheriff. 01:09:54
This maintenance position. 01:09:57
Would do. 01:10:00
Things that you currently contract out, like he was explained in the kitchen equipment and things like that. Would that be an 01:10:02
option as well for some savings? 01:10:06
Within your budget. 01:10:10
It's an errant point, you know, we're not here to take on the HVAC system. 01:10:13
Again, our maintenance person will work with the building for distilled be my hope and I don't think they would want that as well. 01:10:16
Well. 01:10:22
So I just. 01:11:24
Sorry. So we've got what, five months left in this year? 01:11:26
So that's 23,000. I just divided 56,000 / 12. 01:11:32
So that would be leave 23,000 remaining for salary for this year. 01:11:38
It's budget time. We're working on your budgets. 01:11:45
Only because I know kind of what work you're talking about. 01:11:51
And. 01:11:59
For 40 hours worth of work. 01:12:01
For the building authority to do that would be lot. 01:12:05
More cost effective my guests. 01:12:08
You're talking probably 20 + 1000. 01:12:12
In additional appropriations from us to have that done by an outside company. 01:12:16
Roughly. 01:12:23
And that's just a guesstimate on my part, but. 01:12:25
So 23,000 for salary for five months where? 01:12:29
The maintenance person can do. 01:12:33
This, plus some things is really in an essence. 01:12:36
Going to cost us 3000 because he is going to have to come back for additional appropriation to have this work done because. 01:12:41
The work we've already approved is not going to be able to be done unless this other part gets done first. 01:12:48
And if I recall, this work was related to the security issue. 01:12:54
Correct. 01:13:00
Yes, yes. 01:13:02
Technical. Sorry, whatever. 01:13:04
That's my concern. 01:13:09
Jail safety. Staff safety. 01:13:13
Of the corrections officers in that building. 01:13:15
I mean, it's a $3000 difference for this year. 01:13:19
Possibly. 01:13:22
Might be a little bit more because my estimate on 20 plus is just an estimate. 01:13:24
Yeah, I, I, I think it's a very important position that needs to be worked in. 01:13:32
And I think I know, Denise, you and myself are on the budget. I think we need to come up with some cuts if we have to, for 55,000, 01:13:39
for the 25,000 or for the 2025 budget. 01:13:44
If we want to fit it in that way. 01:13:51
But I think this is a very important position for the 24/7. 01:13:53
And it's really going to be a washing cost for this year. 01:13:58
And I can work with the commissioners in terms of. 01:14:01
Outlining what that looks like in terms of make decisions. 01:14:04
All right. We have a motion and a second. Is there any anything else? Yeah, I just would say I mean this. 01:14:13
This is one person and does that they're going to qualify for overtime, I'm assuming because those things break, you know, but 01:14:19
outside of eight to four. 01:14:24
You know what? 01:14:30
Again, I guess what I'm hearing from the sheriff is that there's really been no work that has gone unperformed unless it's 01:14:32
attached to a special project. I think that's the only thing you were talking about was this special project that you have. You're 01:14:38
having some issues getting that done. So whether you're going to have to maybe contract that out. And then again, nothing in 01:14:44
writing with the with the, with the relationship between, you know, this position and the billing authority and how all that 01:14:49
works. So. 01:14:55
Just a few things that I think need to be ironed out. 01:15:02
Not again. I want this to work but I just I don't have enough. 01:15:07
To answer that last question, that's what that would be done with the commissioners in terms of their contract before they sign 01:15:14
off on that. 01:15:19
The other issue in terms of fundamentally speaking. 01:15:26
I don't know what the overtime would be or not. 01:15:29
And so we, you know, just like any Merida or jail officer, you don't know what all the old times going to take. 01:15:32
Place we would have our own maintenance person just like we have our own kitchen person. You know we operate a small town down 01:15:36
there and this is just another added piece. I think it's going to be beneficial for everyone in terms of what we want to do. And 01:15:41
there's no additional appropriation lease for now in 2025. We can sit down and talk about you're going to go over our budget 01:15:45
anyways and cut what you need to cut or discuss what we need to discuss and that could be part of the talking points there as well 01:15:50
so. 01:15:55
I I still have a question about whether the contract needs to be looked at to see if there's anything that needs to be changed in 01:16:02
the contract to. 01:16:06
Make sure that we're not overlapping with what the contract says and what the sheriff's going to have this new person, if I may 01:16:12
ask. We can look at it if I'm saying that we're going to work with the commissioners and outline what each one does. I mean, what 01:16:17
more would you need in terms of I want the contract to be looked at and I want there to be a clear definition of what you're going 01:16:22
to. 01:16:27
Do and what the building authority is going to do and what each is not going to do. 01:16:33
And. 01:16:40
Umm, Aaron, I mean, can't you just ask your maintenance guys to work some overtime for three days and fix this problem that we 01:16:42
have on the on the right now and then we can deal with this in 2025, the 2025 budget. Let's just work some overtime, let's work 01:16:49
three days overtime and get this thing done so we can move forward. 01:16:56
And if it costs a little more money, I mean, we just, we just need to do what we need to do here to make this happen. 01:17:05
I think they already pay overtime. He just told us that on July 4th they were there at 11:00 at night. 01:17:11
I don't. 01:17:17
I'm just asking you to go. I'm asking that you go ahead and take care of this issue in the jail so that we can move forward with 01:17:24
the project and we can address this in the 2025 budget. 01:17:30
For both the building authority and the. 01:17:37
And the sheriff and. 01:17:42
That's my ask, Karen, Is that you just. 01:17:44
Yeah, I understand. 01:17:59
And I'm asking. I mean, absolutely I'm asking. 01:18:02
What is the timeline I don't really have? 01:18:06
This is not seeing this invite or anything. 01:18:09
This should. 01:18:13
The copy is goodness. This should have been part of project. 01:18:16
So outline hook out. 01:18:22
But we still have to. So this is something we can do at all time and we can work with. I don't know who's going to work. 01:18:24
So I don't know if this is. 01:18:33
Project. It really wasn't property. 01:18:39
I got the gist. 01:18:42
How many panels have to come out and go back? And I hope. 01:18:44
Yeah, I don't know if. 01:18:47
This section needs to come out today, and it has. 01:18:52
Tomorrow and then that's actually I don't know if it has to go right back up. So for security reasons I obviously can't get. 01:18:55
So if we came in early and took them out and then say like that. 01:19:04
I don't know how it's gonna, you know, our schedule is not. 01:19:09
Our schedules fluid in the fact that stuff breaks. 01:19:13
Understand. 01:19:16
So I, I just want to, I just want to say real quick, we've got a. 01:19:18
Virtually new to three-year old. 01:19:22
Renovated jail that we paid $15 million for. 01:19:26
And the fact that we. 01:19:31
Don't have a maintenance person in that facility at all times is a concern to me because I know how people are inside that jail 01:19:33
and they're looking for anything. 01:19:39
That they can pick on and the fact that we have to wait. 01:19:46
For anyone to come fix something instead of it being taken care of in a timely manner is a concern to me from a liability 01:19:50
standpoint. 01:19:55
We have two people in that in on the conference at all times. 01:20:10
And this whole issue about the main disposition is not based off this one issue. 01:20:16
It's a fundamental approach that we need our maintenance person to jail. 01:20:22
Simple as that. 01:20:25
I've tried to answer all the questions in terms of funding, how we're going to fund it, which is no additional appropriations, 01:20:26
what we can look at for next year. This is not a knock on the building authority itself. You know, we need to be overseers of our 01:20:32
own maintenance person within the jail and and moving forward with that. 01:20:38
You don't keep track of it How often? 01:20:49
Mr. Chairman, I call with question. 01:20:54
All right, we have motion a second. 01:20:56
All in favor for the new position. Say aye aye. All opposed aye. Show hands please. 01:20:59
Thank you. 01:21:07
All right, we have two. We have three items left on the. 01:21:12
Agenda in the interest of time for those who have a deadline elsewhere, I'm going to remove the perf allocation for future 01:21:16
employees. Discussion to a future meeting, Gloria, so we have the building authority budget discussion. 01:21:24
Property of itself and then the brief update from our EMS services. 01:21:33
The building authority budget. 01:21:38
On the agenda today, I specifically further discussion. 01:21:42
I may have asked for it to be put on because I want to make sure that we're not in the position that we got into last year that if 01:21:47
when you guys have to approve the budget. 01:21:52
You guys meeting the commissioners? 01:21:59
But it got you all approved it last July in 2023 for the 2024. 01:22:02
Budget and then it got to the position where we were approving the budget and we cut $250,000 out of it and just it was. 01:22:13
It was not a good way to handle it, so if there's any cuts that need to be made to the 2025 Building Authority budget, now is the 01:22:24
time that we should do that. 01:22:29
That was my my my recommendation for putting this on. 01:22:36
Drill down just just a minute on it, I think. 01:22:44
Some of the complaint, the biggest maybe complaint was it was done mid year and there wasn't a lot of conversation about the cost 01:22:47
of the budget and when it came time to appropriations, appropriations were made or for the budget was approved less than the 01:22:55
request a few months back. And the right hand was on top of the left hand is what I understood. So I think Denise's point, now is 01:23:02
the time to be talking to each other. All of you already received proposed budget draft, yes. 01:23:10
And were there any items at present I think the capital projects list? 01:23:18
Is largely. 01:23:23
Basically. 01:23:27
Some of that's going to go away on all of. 01:23:28
They were doing their due diligence putting those on, but to let us know that those were systems. 01:23:32
Ever beyond or expected life. 01:23:37
Potential hotspots are probably aware of like, as you know, the chore that we talked about earlier is part of that, you know, so 01:23:41
part of it does overlap with the decisions we're going to be making. 01:23:46
And I believe that you have to approve this budget by July 25th, is that correct? 01:23:55
So. 01:24:05
Is there is there a way to do? 01:24:10
To get to the building authority budget in line with our normal budget process because. 01:24:15
I don't know if it's based on some type of fiscal year, but having your budget approved by July 25th is a big, big problem for us 01:24:22
since we don't sign off on ours until October. 01:24:27
Still, we have an issue with the commissioners approving in the budget and then the council saying this isn't going to work. 01:24:42
It presents a legal issue, a very bad timing issue. 01:24:52
A nice milestone when we were able to get the EMS budget. 01:24:57
Kind of brought online there. So I don't know what's going to happen before this year, but Rick and. 01:25:00
Scott, could you guys look to see if there's any latitude and trying to bring that on to the five? 01:25:04
Usual agreement from both parties. 01:25:12
So simple, I know you. 01:25:16
That was a simple MOU. 01:25:18
When you change your contract. 01:25:21
Just an application of the agreement. Is that something we could possibly do this year then? 01:25:23
Yeah, and I've got a question. 01:25:31
Before the end of the year, what's your cycle for approval? 01:25:36
October. October is our our approval. 01:25:41
We have a. 01:25:46
The budget presented us in September and our full day budget hearing. 01:25:48
But in the past. 01:25:56
No one's really been here to explain. 01:25:59
You know the needs and the different light items and well, that's because it was already approved Exactly and. 01:26:03
I'm in the camp that there should be no capital approved while we're going through this process of what we're going to do with a 01:26:12
new building. If there's an issue, we have a rainy day fund. We should not be building up a capital fund in case something happens 01:26:17
when you already have a rainy day fund. 01:26:23
The the. 01:26:29
Building authority budget should be. 01:26:31
As thin as possible. 01:26:35
For salaries and benefits or what? 01:26:38
Whatever. 01:26:41
Don't get me started on the way the whole thing set up is is. 01:26:43
It's a ridiculous setup, but anyway, we're not gonna wine here. 01:26:47
I know it's the 19th reading way to extend. 01:26:52
Our contract for the next three months based on what it already is and you get the budget soaked up for next year. 01:26:57
So. 01:27:07
Well, I'll test you 2 gentlemen with doing that. 01:27:14
And it will also look at the contract with you, but. 01:27:18
It does make sense that we can get everything on the same financial calendar. 01:27:21
OK. All right. Anything else on? Yeah, I do. We want to keep the same people on their budget. 01:27:26
Meeting. 01:27:36
For the October approval. 01:27:39
Or does somebody else want to be on the building authority budget? 01:27:41
To meet with them. 01:27:46
If we're going to extend it, we might as well treat them like every other department. Do we have specific budget assignment for 01:27:48
we're not, we're not, we're still not going to be over their their budget, still retain that. 01:27:54
But I thought the whole reason for extending it would be for somebody on the council to go through their budget, because that's 01:28:01
kind of what the issue was last. We have it right now, Let's just go through it and if you have an issue, get with the 01:28:05
commissioners. 01:28:09
So all seven of us will be on their budget. OK. I just wanted to make sure that we didn't need to meet with the building 01:28:14
authority. I just wanted to treat them like we treat every other department. 01:28:19
But that's OK, we can look at it and get with you and tell you what we like or not. 01:28:25
That's fine. The opportunity to do that. 01:28:31
In greater detail than you've had in the past. 01:28:33
So there's nothing else on that. We'll go to the Highlander and Ameripro alphabetically, I guess. 01:28:36
This never question I think or. 01:28:44
Presentation. You want to do both. 01:28:48
Good morning Brandon Alexander Highlander fire. Just wanted to take the opportunity this morning at this joint meeting to just 01:28:51
provide an update to these governing bodies as. 01:29:02
You guys did a lot of work in trying to get EMS to where it is and. 01:29:14
I think it's going well. America and ourselves are creating a good working environment together. 01:29:20
We, our crews, are working well. Run times are down. 01:29:30
As far as Highlander goes. 01:29:36
We have our ALS certification in place, um. 01:29:40
We are working on getting our staffing up. We have one truck staffed all the way up to one open paramedic spot which is being 01:29:45
filled by part timers at this time, but working on getting another individual in full time. We started to hire additional staff to 01:29:52
start. 01:29:59
Staffing our second squad, they are starting on the 1st week of August so. 01:30:06
Just in general, I think EMS is the most robust it's been in Floyd County in a long time. 01:30:15
Brian Oh, I agree. We're having the same challenges they are staffing. 01:30:26
All of our ENT basic spots have been filled. 01:30:34
We have hired. 01:30:37
3 paramedics, we still got challenges there, but we knew that would be a challenge when we started. Like you said, response times 01:30:39
are down and getting better every every day. 01:30:43
Yeah, we faced it head on and I think we're doing a good job. 01:30:50
There's been a, there's been a number of calls where both America and Highlander have worked together. Obviously the the Ace 01:30:53
Hardware incident kind of highlighted that America Pros crews were first on scene. They set up a triage center, provided staging 01:31:03
for the patients that needed to be transported and and which order they needed to be transported. 01:31:12
As far as everything's going. 01:31:22
It's looking good. We are working with the supervising hospital, Floyd Floyd Baptist Health Floyd. They are establishing a 01:31:26
committee that's going to start doing audit reviews, continuing education as well as. 01:31:33
Protocol review periodically and we're both going to be, I don't remember who on your guys department, but myself and then a 01:31:43
representative from America are going to be part of that so. 01:31:49
This really is laying a foundation for a strong EMS service. 01:31:57
So. 01:32:03
Any questions for us? Yeah, Mitchell way do you have you have these 8 agreements in place? Is that correct? And if so, how many? 01:32:08
Have you all responded to any mutual aids? Yes, there have been a number of mutual aid. We do have mutual aid with Ameripro as 01:32:14
well as all of the surrounding fire departments. 01:32:20
Just in the month of June, Highlander responded to 14 calls of service in the city of New Albany. 8IN Georgetown. 01:32:29
One in Borden, one in Sellersburg and one down in Elizabeth. 01:32:37
OK. As far as mutual aid for us, we have reached out to Tri Township and Harrison County and obviously we have mutual aids in 01:32:43
place for Highlander. 01:32:49
And we're trying to figure out how to approach a mutual aid between the city of America and the county. The mayor pro. 01:32:55
So we'll figure out how to do that. 01:33:02
OK, just start Windows. The commissioners have committed to making all of that data available on the county website monthly with 01:33:05
the emergency response times and usually. 01:33:11
CMS Advisory Board is being refined as well. Commissioner Sharp is leading on that to. 01:33:17
Have that responsibility and data analysis, quality assurance going on at least quarterly and important that to the commissioners 01:33:25
in the county at large. So it's off to a great start. 01:33:31
I do want to add one thing. 01:33:38
That you're far more meeting last night and you gave a rundown of the response times. 01:33:40
And that includes inside Highlander as well as a mutual aids. But if any way possible if you could separate that because mutual 01:33:45
aid going to Harrison County or someplace else is going to actually. 01:33:53
Make those response times higher, but in terms of way that you can segregate those for Highlander at least whenever you present, 01:34:00
whenever you you know present that that way we can see exactly what our what they are in, in the Highlander area that you guys 01:34:08
responsible for. Appreciate that. So just to clarify, you're roughly six weeks into the the new contract, if you will. Are you on, 01:34:15
on par with where you think where you expected things to be if you exceeded it? Is there any unforeseen challenges that have come 01:34:22
up that maybe we need to address? 01:34:29
I think you've already answered it, but just to just to clarify that are we, are we where, where we thought we would be? Are we 01:34:37
doing well? Are we exceeding those? 01:34:41
Situation, yeah, so. 01:34:49
But no call was gone unanswered. Everything is good there and it seems like you have a great working relationship. Thank you. 01:34:59
And I think I may have misunderstood, but so currently you have two part-time paramedics. 01:35:06
No, currently we have. 01:35:13
5 part-time paramedics and we have two full time paramedics. 01:35:17
And then August, you have another paramedic card. 01:35:24
We are working on getting another paramedic hired by August. Yes. 01:35:28
His interview is on Monday. 01:35:32
And then you guys have all your certifications. 01:35:35
Your individual Highlanders certifications. 01:35:39
To run an ambulance from top to bottom. 01:35:44
Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you for your continued help. 01:35:52
Thank you. 01:35:56
We're moving #4 the PERF discussion to it, our next joint meeting. And that's when again. 01:36:01
August 27th, four, 4:00 PM. 01:36:33
Thank you. 01:36:37
Nothing further. 01:36:39
I'm good, I'm good. 01:36:43
I'm good. All right. I just want to say it's a pleasure working with both of these bodies. Everybody seems to be in it for the 01:36:45
right reason. Everything I can tell, everybody appears done. A lot of behind the scenes work on all these projects that were 01:36:52
presented today. So very proud to be part of the team. And with that, I'll look for a motion to adjourn. Second, we're not 01:36:59
adjourned yet. What's that? OK. 01:37:06
Reconvene. 01:37:15
Need approval for. 01:37:18
6/25/24 Joint meeting minutes. 01:37:21
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Transcript

Event transcript
The Council. 00:00:04
Friday, July 19, 2024 If you'll please silence your cell phones and you need to have a conversation, we've got the the hallway 00:00:06
you'll rise and join for the Pledge of Allegiance, please. 00:00:11
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:00:18
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:24
All right, thank everyone for being here. We have a busy agenda, but I am told that we have open-ended possession of the room 00:00:32
until about 4:00 PM this afternoon. So I'm joking. We won't be here that long, but we'll probably go a little bit after the 11:00 00:00:39
hour. Mr. Springle is not present, but he is on his way. I have two messages that indicates that. So we will go ahead and begin in 00:00:46
his absence. We do have an agenda before us. We're going to add. 00:00:53
To that presentation from Highlander Fire with regards to an update on. 00:01:01
1st. 00:01:06
I just have the high wind right here. Didn't see it, sorry. Thanks. So we'll hear from them towards the end of the meeting. The 00:01:10
agenda that was handed out had 12345. We're going to bring 5 up to #1 before our presentation from envoy. So I. 00:01:17
County Attorney Rick Fox is going to join us for those two items. I'm just going to give a brief recount of what this is about. We 00:01:27
kind of started a. 00:01:31
Oh, I don't know, called a tradition or whatever, but with the Commissioner Sharp had his Project Elvis, which was kind of a code 00:01:38
name for animal care and control. That was kind of not public at the time that we were doing it. And for the last four or five, 00:01:45
six months, we've been kicking around Project Runaround, which is what I'm going to unveil here right now, which is. 00:01:53
That the Commissioners of the Council jointly have been looking long and hard for space to fulfill some of our needs. 00:02:01
Everyone in the county knows that the former City County building. 00:02:11
Is in absolute need of repair. We're here at length about that from our owners, representatives, the Envoy group momentarily on 00:02:16
that. 00:02:20
But we have identified a piece of real estate, beautiful piece of real estate that we're going to pursue the purchase of. So 00:02:25
project runaround was about 120 W Spring Street, which is the Chase building, the Chase building and the parking lot behind it, 00:02:31
the Circle K. So just a brief summary. We're going to get into details on this down the road. The reason I bring this up at this 00:02:38
moment is that during the Envoy presentation, you're going to hear reference to the Annex over and over again. And the Annex is 00:02:44
the Chase Building. 00:02:51
22,176 square feet, four floors. There are current tenants within the building. It is our intent to honor those leases and have 00:02:58
those burned out gradually over the next few years we'll be getting some revenue from the tenants on that that we intend to put 00:03:07
into a non recurring fund for building maintenance. 45 current parking spaces as compared to the 27th we currently have at the. 00:03:17
County building with the. 00:03:27
Capability of increasing that to 70 parking spaces downtown if we were to ever remove the drive through banking corridor. Of 00:03:31
course all these plans are are in motion. I mean there might be utility having that drive through for tax payment purposes and 00:03:38
things like that down the road. The purchase price agreed upon is $8,650,000. 00:03:46
We're estimating somewhere between $500 million for remodeling on that as well. The primary funding on that's going to be through 00:03:54
the cumulative capital development tax that was imposed last year. So we feel like there's a real good fit with the parts of the 00:04:00
revenue that we have coming in on that. So we're not anticipating the need for any tax increase to pay for this building. We also 00:04:06
have some leftover American Relief Program Act that we're going to put towards the initial payment on that. So we would 00:04:12
anticipate. 00:04:19
Signing the contract on that momentarily. 00:04:26
And later this year, handing out details for transition occupancy, which will begin as early as 2025 for some of the office space 00:04:29
and as late as perhaps 20312032 on the 1st floor for the Chase building if they execute their option for renewal on the lease. But 00:04:36
again, in the meantime, we're going to be capturing rent revenue off of that. 00:04:44
So we'll be around to answer questions on that after the meeting. Right now want to be ripped up for? 00:04:52
5A and 5B. 00:05:00
Thank you with regards to the contract. 00:05:05
As you indicated, $8,650,000 that is subject to us obtaining the bond financing to. 00:05:10
Get the sale approved. Obviously, we have to have the financing in order to purchase the building. This contract's been reviewed 00:05:22
by Barnes and Thornburg. Steve Langdon on behalf of the County Council and myself. 00:05:30
And so it's a 21 page agreement and. 00:05:40
We would be here to 4:00 if. 00:05:45
We went through all the terms of the agreement. 00:05:48
I will tell you the legal counsel has approved it and we've been through it in detail with regards to the terms and we're looking 00:05:52
for approval by the commissioners. 00:05:57
OK. And so at this moment again, the Commissioners meeting within this joint meeting are asked to consider that one thing I didn't 00:06:03
mention, I'm sure. 00:06:07
Mine is what are you going to move over there? And it's going to be basically a move of the taxes minus the clerk's office. 00:06:11
So the idea is that, and again, I don't wanna steal they all Thunder, but we're gonna be talking about expansion of the courts 00:06:19
over the next decade. And so trying to empty out as much space from the building that we've had as it goes under information 00:06:25
replacement. 00:06:30
So down the road we'll be having the. 00:06:37
Everybody but you ought to be the recording, the auditor, or the treasure. 00:06:43
The assessor's office and other folks that we'd be bringing in there. 00:06:45
So. 00:06:49
I do have just I'm sure it's going to be asked as far as the where appraisals done on the property. 00:06:51
How there was this price established our appraisals going to be needed for this property that. 00:06:58
I know it's going to be asked. 00:07:02
Appraisals were obtained on the property and. 00:07:04
There the top appraisal was. 00:07:10
8,650,000 The other appraisal was below that. 00:07:14
Statutorily, in terms of the Commissioners, umm. 00:07:21
You're looking at a statute that would require the average of the two appraisals in terms of the financing, how this is being set 00:07:26
up. We've set it up with a building corporation. That corporation has already been set up and I have the statement here for you to 00:07:32
approve here in just a minute. 00:07:38
And so the corporation is the one purchasing the building. And so therefore they're not bound by the average of the two 00:07:46
appraisals. And so this is what was needed in order to purchase the building. 00:07:54
8,000,525 they were not very far off. The other one, the lower one was 8,000,400 and something so. 00:08:03
We get the exact numbers. 00:08:15
Building corporation. I don't remember the low and I know it was very close. 00:08:17
That's fine. 00:08:26
All right, so if there are no. 00:08:28
For the discussion on that, I'll look for a motion to approve. 00:08:31
Signage of desk contractors that was in the contract. 00:08:35
So moved. 00:08:38
Second, all in favor? 00:08:39
All righty. And as a follow up on the building corporation that was set up, I have. 00:08:43
A bill here from the state of Indiana for $94.00 that I need you all to approve if you would. And then I'll pass this on to 00:08:50
Susanna who will prepare the warrant, send it on to our auditor for payment, and we'll take care of the state. Motion to approve. 00:08:58
And I'll second, OK, Again, that's 94 dollars, 94.00, correct? That is correct. All in favor. 00:09:06
And the last item I have is a contract from Stifel. 00:09:17
And Stifle is the company that will be marketing the bonds. And so it's a standard contract that all the bonds that we've had 00:09:21
issued in the past. 00:09:26
So asking for your approval there. 00:09:33
Motion to approve. I'll second. Motion to second, All in favor. 00:09:37
Aye, and I'll get your signatures after the meeting. 00:09:41
And Ricky mentioned about forming the building Corporation. Is that part, that part of what we just approved or is that a 00:09:46
separate? 00:09:49
OK, Yeah. 00:09:54
That's good. The deal. 00:09:55
Thank you. 00:10:00
All right. So we'll move on to our presentation from Envoy. Again, part of the process has been hiring a building representative. 00:10:02
Again, that's going to pay for our CCD funds that we have. 00:10:08
Implemented last year, coming in this year as well and. 00:10:16
We were not quite daily with Dale, but at least every other week we all get together at least a couple times. We. 00:10:20
I have a discussion so the presentation we have today, all the members up here did get a printed out copy of this as well. 00:10:28
Can I make one of those available to the process of logic worse? 00:10:36
That further take place. 00:10:41
Thank you. I'm excited to be here today. Last time we were before you, we were starting to ask the questions about what can we do 00:10:43
to move this building forward. Thinking about three options. Do we keep the building and completely rehab it? Do we look at a 00:10:51
partial rehab or do we look at a new build? So that's the lens we've been looking at as we've started to evaluate this building 00:10:58
and I'm excited to see we're already making steps forward with the with the annex as we go through. 00:11:06
Go through this presentation, a lot of that will start to make sense of how these these pieces can fit together. I will give the 00:11:14
caveat that anything in this presentation is not fine. This is very schematic, but it goes to prove the point of where we're at 00:11:21
and hope and help us to make decisions going going forward. 00:11:28
You know, last time we talked, we also talked about what about structure of the building, what about the environmental 00:11:36
considerations, asbestos, lead paint. 00:11:40
All the things we might want to think about, we're going to run through some of that here today too, just so you can see the depth 00:11:44
we've gone into to understand this building, understand what we need to do. So here's a quick agenda of what we'll run through, 00:11:50
and I'm going to turn this over to Brittany to talk through. 00:11:55
Some of our home. 00:12:02
Thank you, Dale. 00:12:07
As now mentioned, this has been a joint effort with multiple. 00:12:09
Hands involved Envoy that Dale and I are here for. We are owners, representatives. We're also here today with Michelle Allen 00:12:13
Reese, which has been the architect throughout this process. S and ME did the asbestos and LED study. We had Ameresco come in that 00:12:20
evaluated the mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems also referred to throughout the presentation as MEP. And then KPFF came 00:12:27
in and did a simple analysis of the current judicial center. 00:12:33
This has been a long ongoing process. As Dale mentioned, we've taken a look at all of the analysis that were performed. We have 00:12:42
met along with Michelle Allen Reitz to go through and interview a different department and and get their voice and opinions heard 00:12:48
for what they need as far as space. What they're looking at is for anticipation of growth. We've taken all of this information 00:12:54
that we received through the different reports and analysis that were performed and compiled this presentation in today that you 00:13:00
will be receiving. 00:13:06
As Dale also mentioned, we did take a look through the lens of three options. 00:13:13
As going through with this presentation with that being a partial remodel, a complete rehabilitation of the current building and 00:13:17
then a new construction building. 00:13:20
I'm going to walk through some of the findings and assumptions that we have for the asbestos and lead study, the structural 00:13:29
analysis. 00:13:32
The review of the mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems and then I'm going to hand it over to Angie who is going to go 00:13:35
through the space cleaning analysis and deal will kind of wrap up with the overall conclusion of what we have for our lien costs 00:13:40
and go through our three options. 00:13:44
First, I would like to discuss the finding the assumptions that we have for the asbestos and lead study as an. 00:13:51
And get taken care of. It's another thing that they found was lead based paint. A lot of this was in downstairs in the metal cage 00:14:33
and the maintenance offices. There was also an other paint throughout the building. You can see the metal Cafe and maintenance 00:14:40
office is one of them. In the basement throughout the building there's different tiles that also came up for having lead paint. 00:14:47
They also found other materials that were located as you can see on here, that were classified as just other regulated materials 00:14:55
and universal waste throughout the building. 00:14:59
Here are some images you can see that they included in their analysis. There were some issues of asbestos. You can see the floor 00:15:07
tiles. There was some. 00:15:11
Areas that we're concerned down in the basement, you can see where they took samples from some of the ceilings and you can see the 00:15:15
wood panelings that are located throughout the buildings where they did find that asbestos that. 00:15:20
The next thing I have is the structural analysis. KPFS came through and did a structural analysis of the whole building. 00:15:30
As well as they also looked at the current Indiana building code for existing structures, they indicated where there were some 00:15:37
that there were some standards that were not currently being met according to the ending in a building code for new structures. 00:15:43
What they found the biggest issues with the structure was mainly the 1st floor. There's a lots of slab cracking as well as water 00:15:50
infiltration because of the slab cracking on the first floors. 00:15:55
Also the entryways is where you can see that this is present of a lot of the water infiltration coming into the first floors as 00:16:01
well as the slab cracking. There's also some of the the stairwells that you can see that there's cracking because of movement and 00:16:06
shifts in the building just due to age. 00:16:11
There were some exterior issues as well, concrete falling on the canopy. Some of there was issues to some of the curtain wall 00:16:17
along the exterior of the building. 00:16:22
Here is a list of just a couple of the items that they touched. Based on that, we're not meeting code requirement due to the for 00:16:29
the 2014 Indiana building code. 00:16:33
KPF put together a list here that you can see the recommendations are color-coded based on current hazard levels. Items in wet red 00:16:42
are recommended to be addressed immediately. Items in yellow or future, and then items in green are the least areas of of needing 00:16:48
remediation right now. 00:16:54
The high things that they touched on were the paneling on the curtain wall. They said future panels could fall into the sidewalk 00:17:01
endangering public safety. They recommend replacing panels. The other big thing that I had mentioned and touched on was the 00:17:06
cracking on the 1st floor vegetables and cracks on the 1st floor where you having water infiltration come in, mainly at the 00:17:12
entrance points. 00:17:17
Here are some images that you can see. The 1st is kind of in the lower left hand corner is where you can see some deterioration 00:17:25
around the main entrance. Then you can see cracking that we have along the entrances that also as we're having water infiltration 00:17:31
come in as well as getting into the basement. 00:17:36
Then that middle image there is some cracking that we have interior close to the elevator on the 1st floor. 00:17:42
After that you can see cracking on the stairwell where it's going through the structure and then you can see on the last image is 00:17:49
where there's some cracks that are located on some of the ceilings. 00:17:54
Here is an example of where you can see how that kind of structural repair takes place. Just so a good visualization, this is the 00:18:01
closest thing that we could find of what they would do for that building. This is some structural repair on a on a garage where 00:18:08
you can see where they actually will cut sections of the structure out and work to replace it. 00:18:15
Ameresco came in and they did an analysis of the mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems. 00:18:26
The big thing that they found here when they did it, we know that HVAC, the HVAC system is something that they heavily looked at 00:18:34
when they presented theirs. We kind of broke theirs up a little bit differently and we presented theirs as going through with the 00:18:41
three options with a partial remodel, a complete rehabilitation and then a new build and looking at the partial remodel. 00:18:48
They would have to go back in a little bit more and assess to see what could be salvage as far as the current air system. 00:18:57
Go back in for electrical and see what else can be, what can be salvage and what cannot. But we know do know from their analysis 00:19:06
that the HVAC is is not in good shape. 00:19:10
Here's their assumptions that they made as well for partial remodel, complete rehabilitation, a complete rehabilitation, part of 00:19:17
it will be phase occupancy. This could be difficult, but it would be possible because they're having to go through the building 00:19:24
and look at these systems and replacing some of it would be difficult to be able to display some of the offices. 00:19:31
Here you can see we broke out. Here just some of the MEP costs. 00:19:41
This is going to also be included in the final cost that Dale is going to touch over, but you can see what it would cost just to 00:19:46
have a partial remodel, the complete rehabilitation and the new build for some of the systems. One of this that we are looking at 00:19:53
where you can see it says jail is listed on here. We do know that we would have to have some replacement with the jail, the 00:19:59
chiller as well as the boiler. So that's where you see some of that cost is right now. Some of those items are being shared. 00:20:06
And then included in this is the additional cost for the phase occupancy for that work. And I do also want to note that on top of 00:20:13
that, they do have a 20% premium for Facebook. 00:20:18
I'll go ahead right now and brings over to Angie Michelle Allen Reeds to go over the space morning. 00:20:26
Good morning. I'm Angie clear with Michelle Elements here in New Albany and. 00:20:36
Wanted to share with you a little bit about the space planning analysis that we were grateful to have the opportunity to be a part 00:20:43
of. 00:20:46
We've got a lot of historical knowledge, but we tried to approach this objectively and. 00:20:50
Talk to each department and assess what their current usage is in the building and then what their current are there. 00:20:57
They have current needs on top of how they're using it, and then also they haven't. 00:21:06
Future needs that need to be addressed as well as anticipated growth. So there's a series of. 00:21:10
Ways to look at this and. 00:21:17
We were tasked with. 00:21:19
Thinking about this in a way so that it would fit into the three categories and. 00:21:23
Our first step was assessing the current space usage and. 00:21:28
We. 00:21:33
Had to take the square footage, which is very simple to do and talk about. We need the these many more desks. We have this much 00:21:35
growth that would happen if a future court would occur, things like that. 00:21:41
What is not so easily quantifiable is the. 00:21:47
The common non tangible elements such as space, function and. 00:21:51
Within the departments between each other, such things as security, you know, within the site, the building and each court and 00:21:57
associated offices, separating the public, the inmates, the judicial circulation and the holding and waiting space for all of 00:22:04
those departments. The efficient use of these spaces. 00:22:11
The hearing rooms and then the privacy required for fair trials and efficient and. 00:22:20
There on each side so that. 00:22:26
The judges have what they need, and then the public has what they need. 00:22:34
So that was a little bit harder to quantify some of those things and that's where you'll see some of the differences in. 00:22:38
Percentages of. 00:22:45
Circulation and extra space that needs to be accounted for. The building that we have right now is very high in circulation 00:22:48
percentage. 00:22:52
And. 00:22:57
Such things as bathrooms and restrooms. 00:22:59
Hallways. 00:23:04
The mechanical spaces, all of those things are at like a 25% usage factor on the on this building that we have right now due to 00:23:06
the layout of the space and the confines of the the existing walls. If we would go to a new space that can be handled differently 00:23:13
in a much more efficient way, we can arrange things. 00:23:20
To handle it. 00:23:28
The building can be renovated and it can be improved quite a bit. It's just that these things are hard to quantify on a square 00:23:31
foot basis and we were asked to do that to be able to plug some of that into. 00:23:37
So that you have three options that can be compared. So it's quite. 00:23:44
Complex. Even though it looks very simple, when you say existing square footage and future square footage needs, there's a lot 00:23:48
that's not in writing there. 00:23:52
So if there's any questions, I'll be glad to address those separately or one-on-one if you have any. I'm not going to take you 00:23:57
through and read out all of these square footages, but what you'll see is the partial remodel addresses quite a bit less square 00:24:05
footage in order to be able to utilize that same building without the. 00:24:13
Complete overhaul of the building itself. 00:24:23
We would have less rate. Well, they'll get into that on the next stage there's we have a list of items that apply so. 00:24:27
Right here we have partial remodel in the. 00:24:36
26,000 square footage, the complete rehab at 66,000 square footage and the new building at 84. 00:24:38
1000 but then if we take out the annex, that's just been discussed. 00:24:46
Down to 62, so it's much more comparable because we can take out the spaces that are. 00:24:50
Non judicial. 00:24:55
That don't have to be in the same building. 00:24:57
Thank you, Angie. So what does this mean to everyone? Well, let's start talking about how these options compare and where we where 00:25:09
this takes us from here. 00:25:13
So if we look at a partial remodel, when we're looking at that, we're thinking about the space that's vacated by the departments 00:25:18
that would be moving across to the annex and how those faith and also the space that was vacated by the city and how that all 00:25:24
would be remodeled as part of this. And then adding on top of that the entryways that would need to be remodeled to the the main 00:25:30
entrance there and also the smaller entrance to the north to address that slab cracking issue. So that's where the partial remodel 00:25:36
takes us. 00:25:43
There is a definite amount of fluidity and how much a remodel would go on with that. If there is more space that's desired to be 00:25:50
looked at, we can certainly do that. 00:25:55
If the budget requires us to look at less space, we can look at that too. This by the program of who's moving out seem to make the 00:26:01
most sense. 00:26:06
So in a partial model, you get to retain your directors or prisoner transport between the jail and and this building. You don't 00:26:11
have to use vans, you don't have to use the passport facility, you can. 00:26:18
And keep it internal. That is a huge benefit. 00:26:26
We get to reuse the historic building. 00:26:29
And. 00:26:32
And keep it operable for for years to come. The construction cost is is lower. That's primarily due to the fact that we're 00:26:34
controlling our scope. There's just less square footage in this, so there's less cost. 00:26:40
It will have a long construction duration. This will be the most complicated option. There's lots of moving pieces because we 00:26:49
won't be touching the whole building. 00:26:53
The judicial staff will have to move multiple times. 00:26:59
When the 1st floor is being renovated, I don't necessarily see a path to this building being operable. 00:27:04
It's going to be loud. Courts should not be operating when they're jackhammering on the 1st floor. 00:27:10
Let alone if they could, we could even figure out a way to get them up to the courts with with that operation going on because 00:27:18
that damage is right in front of the elevators. 00:27:22
The other things to to think through, we will need to look at temporary space then because we will have to vacate for a while. 00:27:30
Your temporary space need is less in the partial remodel because we're just not going to have as long of a overall duration, but 00:27:37
it is it would be pretty disruptive to the courts. So we'll need to make sure we find them good accommodations. The other part is 00:27:44
this would become a phased project, the parts of the building that wouldn't necessarily be renovated. 00:27:51
They will likely need to be a subsequent project down the road. 00:27:58
But that said, we are looking at upgrading that mechanical electrical plumbing to to at least get that addressed, get the fresh 00:28:03
air addressed, get the air handlers addressed. It also includes remediation for. 00:28:09
The the basic needs of the asbestos. 00:28:17
Some things like the asbestos tile. 00:28:21
If we're not renovating an area, we really don't have to move it because we're not disturbing it, but a complete rehab as I'm 00:28:23
talking about here. 00:28:27
We have to abate everything. We have to get rid of all the asbestos tile. We have to get rid of all the asbestos and the. 00:28:32
And the HVAC system, we have to worry about the lead paint and the curtain wall. 00:28:39
Again, with that complete rehab, you get to retain your direct prisoner transport you get to. 00:28:44
You get to have the space for the crooks to grow. I mean, as you solve the space analysis in either the partial rehab, the 00:28:54
complete rehab or the new build. The annex allows us to have the space for growth. 00:29:00
Which allows this building to to meet our current need and our our future need. 00:29:07
So then we talked about a new build. A new build is where you have the most cost control because we can completely control the 00:29:15
scope. 00:29:19
Temporary workspaces wouldn't be needed. There would be an acknowledgement of there might be some some temporary pain with the 00:29:25
current building because over the next I'd say two years that would take to get a new building designed and built. 00:29:34
Something might break and we'll have to address that because we would not be going on a. 00:29:43
Proactive basis. At that point we just be using the building until something is ready. 00:29:48
Your construction duration would be shorter so long as we have land to use. Land acquisition could delay things, but if we have 00:29:54
land to use then this is the fastest path forward. 00:29:59
Your move management would be the simplest. You one day are in this building, the next day you are in the other building. 00:30:07
The thing we really want to consider with this is this building and the jail are completely intertwined. They share HVAC systems, 00:30:14
they share power system, they share a lot. So and there's a lot of upgrades needed there even in the base scenario. So we've we've 00:30:20
accounted for all of that. 00:30:26
Today, I'll just before you go for that search, I like to think of these two buildings assigning twins kind of connected at the 00:30:32
heart, yes. So that last bullet point when you say separate, what actually conceptually look like at the end of the day, would it 00:30:39
be a block house where the current city county building is? And then yes, if we were to do a new build and it was not on this 00:30:46
site, if you would pick a different site. 00:30:52
We would have to do something with the central plant. There's if you look at the horseshoe of how the jail and the city county 00:31:00
building are hooked together, in the middle there where the drive goes back is a central plan. 00:31:07
We would have to change out some equipment and right size it to this building because for example, the children, if we take away 00:31:13
the city county building, that shoulder is dramatically oversized for your needs. That's why on the slides that Brittany was 00:31:19
presenting, there was $100,000 delta on the equipment because we can get a smaller chiller. 00:31:26
But the the flip side you'll see when we go through here is then you'll have an open wall to the side of the jail and you'll have 00:31:34
a big hole. 00:31:37
So we have to fill that hole, we have to stabilize the site and we have to sure up the side into the jail so that it is enclosed, 00:31:42
inoperable. 00:31:46
So disclaimer, any of the numbers that I'm showing you, they're, they're very fluid. 00:31:54
They truly are, but we have to draw a line and where our analysis is now so we can pick a path forward. 00:31:59
A lot of these costs can be controlled through scope, through square footage, but to make an educated decision on how to move 00:32:06
forward, this is this is where our analysis is taking us. So partial remodel all, all of our options have the same table. So you 00:32:12
can see apples to apples what we're what we're considering. 00:32:19
Construction cost, soft cost, so that ends up being your contingency, developer fees, things of that nature, temporary housing. 00:32:27
That's finding a building, building it out to house the courts and support staff. 00:32:37
Our estimate doesn't contemplate all of the staff in that number, so we would have to find where we've got space for them. If 00:32:43
there's space in this building, if there's space we can free up in the annex faster, we have to consider that. 00:32:50
We've included the abatement, we've included the structural repair. 00:32:59
We've also included the the jail MEP remodel. 00:33:05
To a total of just over $18 million. 00:33:10
Now go to a complete rehab. 00:33:14
This is essentially gutting the building down to the concrete decks. This is a concrete building with. 00:33:18
Basically just concrete floors or posts. 00:33:29
This would take it down to that and build it back. 00:33:31
All new electrical, all new plumbing, all new all new all new everything. New curtain wall. 00:33:34
Brand new building, just reusing the structure that's underneath. 00:33:40
We'd still fix the structure, we'd fix, you know what's going on the 1st floor with. In either of these scenarios, we look at 00:33:44
adding capacity to make this building better for the long term. At elevators that you know are appropriately sized. Add lobby 00:33:51
space so people waiting for court actually have a place to wait instead of in the hallway. 00:33:58
Either of these scenarios, look at. Look at that. 00:34:06
This comes to a total of 33,600,000. There's some room on this one to move, but not a lot of. 00:34:09
And that's just the nature of the nature of it. If we take that building down to its structure, it's going to take a lot to put it 00:34:19
back. 00:34:23
There is a note on here too. It doesn't include the seismic retrofit. One of the things KPF identified in their chart was the 00:34:29
building does not meet the current structural requirements of seismic design. 00:34:35
I'm not trying to say your buildings unsafe. 00:34:43
I'm not trying to say that at all, but your building was designed in 1959 and built in 1960. It was not built to today's 00:34:45
standards. 00:34:48
So that is something that I want to put out there just for Full disclosure. 00:34:53
By code, you don't have to do anything about it, it's not a requirement. 00:34:57
But if seismic is of concern. 00:35:00
I would steer you towards a new build because the seismic retrofit could be in the 10s of millions of dollars. 00:35:05
And that would just destroy any budget for reuse of the facility. 00:35:11
So then a new build, you'll notice that there is a. 00:35:19
About a 10% cost premium to get a new build keeping the same square footage. As Angie mentioned, in a new scenario we could get 00:35:22
more efficient with our space. So we could get that store footage number down some. And if that number was was too much, we've got 00:35:29
more flexibility to drive it down because we can look at what's our program. 00:35:36
But apples to apples, this is our new build number. Now, there's some things you don't have to worry about in this situation. We 00:35:44
don't have to worry about temporary housing. 00:35:48
The abatement actually becomes a lot simpler because we don't. 00:35:54
There's friable and non friable when it comes to asbestos. 00:35:58
So we only have to worry about the friable when it comes to don't full demolition. 00:36:02
The stuff that's adhered in place and is not going to go airborne. 00:36:07
We don't necessarily have to abate the same way, so long as we're sending it to a certified landfill. 00:36:11
Most of the people that would demo a building like this use a certified landfill to begin with, so it's not really a concern. 00:36:18
So there are some other costs we didn't factor into the muddy the water a little bit. 00:36:26
Fixtures, furniture and equipment. So desks, TV's, office furniture. Usually in a build like this, people would want to upgrade 00:36:31
that. We didn't include it because that just made the water kind of kind of muddy. It's certainly something we can look at, but 00:36:37
not for this, this conversation. Same thing with information technology, access controls. That's a whole whole other concept we 00:36:44
can talk about once we make a decision on on how we want to approach this book. We all still include site acquisition. I know the 00:36:50
county has property. 00:36:57
Maybe we want to use it, maybe we don't. 00:37:05
We could look at a different site, but that would increase the cost of the new poll option. 00:37:07
So just some. 00:37:12
Top level considerations, partial remodel at your lowest upfront cost, but you're gonna have to plan for the future on that one. 00:37:13
Complete rehab. It is slightly less expensive than a new build, but. 00:37:21
There's a lot of. 00:37:26
Intricacies there to making that work. 00:37:28
In terms of moving people around and just making all the move management work. 00:37:31
And then a new build. Logistically it is the easiest, but. 00:37:36
That is, is not inexpensive as well. 00:37:41
So and. 00:37:46
Commissioners asked me to to provide an update of what we what we've spent so far out of the. 00:37:48
Out of the revenue we have available. 00:37:55
And that's that's the sum total. 00:37:57
$287,500. 00:38:00
Beyond that, after we move to the next phase, once we decide on a path forward, we'll want to engage a site civil designer, which 00:38:04
we've we've got estimated in there and. 00:38:10
We'll also want to further engage. 00:38:18
Ameresco to. 00:38:21
OK, we've got a path. Let's figure out this this mechanical electrical plumbing to the teeth so we understand what we're getting 00:38:23
into. 00:38:26
So the path forward of. 00:38:32
Here we're looking to you all to understand. 00:38:34
What you're thinking, What's our next step? 00:38:40
Which scenario makes the most sense for the? 00:38:43
So the county, what budget makes the most sense for the county, even if the direction is maybe like this path, please work with 00:38:46
our financial counselor to to understand what the capability is wonderful. That is the step we want to take. We've come to a kind 00:38:53
of a decision point. So we open it up to to you all to make it. 00:38:59
So thank you. Thank you for all your work today. That last slide was at our request so that. 00:39:08
Taxpayers should see where that CCD money has gone in the year 2024. 00:39:15
Having had a preview of this, knowing there might be a little bit of sticker shock. 00:39:20
Glad that Brad had EMS personnel saying anybody today just in case we might need that. 00:39:25
All kidding aside, I mean, I think at this point we have the information that we need. 00:39:32
As a body. 00:39:37
Commissioners and council jointly and everybody in this room has a stake, everybody in this county has a stake. So I think we have 00:39:39
the information that we need to make a decision with regards to how we're going to progress from here. And again, I'd like to have 00:39:44
that those conversations both individually and the public meetings and. 00:39:50
Have somebody hammered out by the time the leaves are. 00:39:56
Turning on the trees this year and see which way we're going to go with it. One final thing I wanted to articulate because we 00:39:58
discussed it before under each of these three scenarios. 00:40:03
The purchase of the annex made sense because it considerably reduced the cost of each of those correct potential options. By 00:40:09
bringing the annex online, it made the square footage of this building makes sense. 00:40:15
Otherwise, we have been looking at a larger new build or some sort of addition to this building. 00:40:22
Which I know have been explored before And then we'd end up with two kind of narrow buildings parallel to each other. The annex 00:40:31
solved a lot of pieces for us and each under each scenario, the cost of that annex work footage was considerably below partial 00:40:37
rehab, total rehab and new construction costs. So. 00:40:44
Anyway. 00:40:51
My comment is just, you know, I charge everybody here, everybody in the county, think about, let us know your thoughts. We need 00:40:53
that decision to move forward on it. 00:40:57
I do have questions. 00:41:02
On the slide, new build under the comparison options. 00:41:04
There is under temporary housing. You guys have nothing there. 00:41:09
Is that because that building would be on a different site? Because that was the assumption, correct, that we would build a new 00:41:14
build on a different site? If we wanted to reuse the current site, then yes, we would have to look at temporary housing under that 00:41:19
scenario as well. 00:41:24
OK, that's gonna be my question. Is it possible to? 00:41:30
Do a new build on the same site to bring that temporary housing back into the discussion and the temporary number we gave is based 00:41:34
on just average market rates down here with a three-year duration and a tenant build out a. 00:41:43
If their space is available that we can use that are. 00:41:53
Under county control or you know someone. 00:41:58
That wants to partner with the county that can help us out. 00:42:02
That number can go down a lot. 00:42:05
I didn't want to present you a number that was low. 00:42:08
But also, we're not pretty. 00:42:11
Numbers that are unrealistically high. Trying trying to trying to strike that that balance of just giving you some some real 00:42:13
thought, real input here. 00:42:18
I think maybe that is another. 00:42:23
I don't know, maybe a 3A where we need to understand the demo cost. 00:42:26
Of that and what it would take to whatever it would take to build on that side demo cost and temporary household is that something 00:42:32
you can put together like a three Eddy within the presentation we've got the demo cost on this option we've got the temporary 00:42:40
housing in this option so yeah we also the demo cost is already in there got you but the only so the only thing not in here is the 00:42:49
temporary house right these options are meant to be holistic views so this option taking this would take the. 00:42:57
Current building down to the ground. 00:43:07
Turn basically turn the site to seat and straw, just green space and stabilize that wall on the side of the the jail so they're 00:43:10
not just left with a exposed side of the jail. 00:43:16
I have a request I. 00:43:26
Do you have a longevity for each of these options? If we do a partial, it's going to last 10 years complete and a new build. 00:43:30
So a new building. 00:43:38
I mean depending on how we want to build it. 00:43:41
It's easy to say you've got 20-30 years of life before you're starting to think about upgrades. The structure itself, I mean. 00:43:43
I'd say it'd probably be built out of steel in the last. 00:43:52
Quite a while, but usually that 20 or 30 year windows when your mechanical systems start to start to fail and we'll start to have 00:43:55
some real repair costs. Again, we don't have any systems picked or designed. So there's decisions that can be made that swing that 00:44:03
one way or another a little bit, but just off the cuff and on a partial and a complete remnant remodel. 00:44:11
It depends how much we want to put into the mechanical systems. 00:44:20
The number that we looked at has all of like. 00:44:25
Direct replacement of the systems, so the actual units themselves we should still be looking at a similar longevity. 00:44:30
But we're not reducting it, we're not replumbing it, we're not rewiring it unless we have to. So those types of systems would not 00:44:39
have that long. 00:44:44
Right, OK. 00:44:49
Another another question for you under these scenarios that you have listed. 00:44:50
What has the most impact to the judicial courts and system and what has the least impact? I think you covered it, but I just want 00:44:55
to make sure I understood. Functionally the least impact would be a new build on a different site. 00:45:01
They can keep operating in their current capacity and their current building, and then one day they. 00:45:08
Move to the to the new courts. 00:45:13
Most impactful would be the gut rehab option. It's just it's going to be the longest time that they're out of the courts. 00:45:16
The partial falls in between. It depends how much we want to spend on the corporate force I. 00:45:25
And we'll want to work closely with the judiciary because. 00:45:32
Courthouses I've worked on, the annexes I've worked on, we've got to be really sensitive to the course and their trial load 00:45:37
because we don't want to do anything that would give them 'cause for a mistrial. 00:45:42
Any noise, any movement, we don't want to do anything to district them. 00:45:48
Although in the long run. 00:45:53
A new site would require transportation to be an ongoing right. So I was going to, I was going to ask you, Mr. Kneel, is there any 00:45:55
appetite from either one of these bodies to build a building off site? 00:46:02
I thought, I thought we were pretty much on the same page that this is we want to stay down. 00:46:10
At that. So I think if doable, people want to stay downtown, myself included. But we thought it would be proved. Sure, all options 00:46:15
understood. Just making a fresh look at it. 00:46:20
Yeah, No, I didn't. 00:46:25
Even have transportation from the jail across. 00:46:28
The shorter the better. That's the only thing that's actually missing here is. 00:46:34
I guess you would have to add somewhere between 3:00 and 4:00 and a half, $1,000,000 to the temporary housing for a new building 00:46:40
on the same footprint, if you will, on the same property. That's I think he wants to stay in the same footprint, yes. OK, Yeah, 00:46:46
'cause I just. 00:46:51
Didn't know if there was any appetite to say hey, we're going to move it because I didn't think we were there. 00:46:57
Thank you. And again trying to take the the site cost out of the out of the equation because that really could move the needle for 00:47:01
us. 00:47:06
A lot, one way or another. 00:47:12
And we don't have a necessarily a spot that we would want to put it. 00:47:15
So trying to take this really complex animal down to. 00:47:19
These three slides. 00:47:25
I noticed in the cork space that that increased by 50% and it looks like that's there's no options to this. So what was that based 00:47:29
on and how much timeline does that give us for the courts with this forecast? 00:47:37
Angie, correct me if I'm wrong, that we were looking at a 20 year horizon when we talked to the courts. 00:47:45
So the idea was to build out an extra. 00:47:52
Court space and to give it adequate space for the support staff as well. 00:47:56
Currently, the support staff and the jury rooms and the break rooms, it all kind of blends together and functionally it's really 00:48:04
difficult. So yeah, some of those spaces got quite a bit larger square footage walls. So they all. 00:48:12
Function similar to our biggest 4th. So it will just work better for the for the judiciary overall, but it does give us time to 00:48:21
expand the court. It does give us room to. 00:48:26
Add the smaller. 00:48:32
Kind of trial courts, not the full jury courts, but just kind of the hearing room type courts. It does give us room to add those 00:48:35
as well. 00:48:38
Does this include moving what you call the auxiliary court services the. 00:48:45
Adult probation. Juvenile. 00:48:50
Community corrections down to the city County building. Is this Is that part of the plan ancient? 00:48:53
You are. 00:49:00
OK. 00:49:03
Yeah, the if we didn't do, then yes, we got the space for that. 00:49:07
Partial OK. 00:49:10
The partial as well as even the complete renovation. 00:49:13
Complete renovation? Does that make room? 00:49:17
Only with a new build. 00:49:20
OK. 00:49:22
And that comes back to some of the space savings we get with a new footprint. Our current footprint is long and skinny, which 00:49:23
means we just have a lot of circulation space that eats away at that eats away at that building. In a new scenario, we could 00:49:30
potentially be a little bit more efficient with our our floor plan. 00:49:36
Would you? 00:49:48
When you. 00:49:49
Talk to the people at Rice Building. 00:49:51
What's the feel for that building? Was there any kind of cost estimate to maybe bring that up to any kind of standards or any 00:49:57
renovation or? 00:50:01
Was that was that part of the equation? 00:50:07
A lot of. 00:50:16
Very good information. So my recommendation is we all go home and read through this three times. Sleep on it. 00:50:17
We will workshop at some point in the Republican but. 00:50:25
Both formally and formally and will continue to work with you in an interim on fine tuning options. 00:50:30
As we get information, feedbacks, market issues. 00:50:37
And if you have any thoughts after this meeting. 00:50:42
Please feel free to reach out and I'm happy to happy to discuss any of the any of the options. 00:50:46
Just one quick comment. 00:50:53
The construction cost on the. 00:50:55
New build and, and the other scenarios that is based on after you talk to all of the office holders, department heads and 00:50:59
everybody else you came together, you put that together, did you talk to like the needs assessment? That's how you got to that 00:51:05
number the construction cost is based on. 00:51:11
As an envoy, we're I'm your honors Rep on this project, but I'm also a builder. So this is based on historic cost data for us 00:51:19
extrapolated out a couple years, so inflated out a couple years I. 00:51:26
And then we also loaded in those other costs being the structural repair and things of that nature to end up with, with that 00:51:34
total, total cost. So that's where we got our our cost numbers from. 00:51:41
If you actually divided it out on like a square footage basis, that. 00:51:49
Partial option on a square footage basis is a little bit less than the new build or the. 00:51:55
The complete rehab only because it becomes a tenant finish type situation and some of those spaces as opposed to a gut rehab and 00:52:02
that's a very different number. 00:52:09
Understood, the only thing else I would have is I'm not sure I have this information. Would be a comp. 00:52:16
Of the timeline in which the construction duration would be. So if you did option one, this is how much it would cost. And that 00:52:21
way we would understand if we were to move people out, how long they would have to stay temporarily before they be able to move 00:52:27
back in versus a new build, partial build or a partial rehab or a full rehab. I don't have those timelines, but would love to have 00:52:33
those. 00:52:38
With different scenarios that are different financing options. 00:52:44
As well you guys get into the weeds on that as the council on that it's possible that some of the build out. 00:52:49
Can be the owner of some of the mechanicals to reduce some of the initial overhead costs. 00:52:59
You know my feeling on this, if we feel come to the conclusion it's the right thing to do, to do a new build and. 00:53:06
It exceeds what we need to do to get a referendum. Then let's have a reference, let's have a public discussion and let's put it 00:53:12
before people and. 00:53:16
As I as I started out with when I started this discussion. 00:53:22
I presented numbers. I know the numbers are what sticks and everybody said. 00:53:26
Please don't let those be an impediment to to deciding which path we think is best, because there's a lot of room for control. 00:53:30
Either if we want to do more renovation in the partial, if we want to do less on a build option. 00:53:41
There's lots on the table, we just need to pick our our path and start understanding any of the numbers are. 00:53:48
Accurate 100% the. 00:53:55
Gap between the different scenarios I think is going to play out. 00:53:58
You know accurately that makes sense that the order of magnitude between vicinity. 00:54:01
Accurate enough for us to work through the process. Well, I think that we've had this analysis done twice in both of the analysis 00:54:07
have come back within. 00:54:11
They're very, very close. It's so we know we're looking. 00:54:16
In the range. 00:54:21
Yeah. And we're, we're two years after on these. So we're still a little bit a little bit less on the research. 00:54:23
Yeah, I don't know. I don't remember exactly, but I know they're in the ballpark. 00:54:34
Anything else for Mr. Davis at present? I know he'll be here afterwards. Thank you guys for driving down today. 00:54:39
Thank you all for your presentation, your work on this. I mean, everything feedback I've got today is that everything's been done. 00:54:46
Very, very. 00:54:49
Professionally and it was a great deal of concern for. 00:54:54
Not only current space teams for again 1520 years out, which is the way that I think we want to project together. We want this to 00:54:59
be a generation project. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. 00:55:05
All right. 00:55:12
#2 on the official agenda. Jail maintenance specialist. 00:55:16
By the way, Sheriff, they were going to close the hole in the building. 00:55:23
In the jail after completely does that, there wouldn't be an open hole in the jail. I didn't think you'd fix that, no. I figured 00:55:26
they put up a temporary wallet. Maybe it hurt and I don't know. 00:55:30
So we took that in consideration. 00:56:08
So before you, we are looking at this position to have our own maintenance position, be it a specialist pay in the jail. 00:56:10
I've been asking for additional appropriations within our budget. 00:56:18
So that's what's before you today. 00:56:22
I'll make a motion to approve the. 00:56:28
Jail maintenance specialist position. 00:56:30
And that's primarily a council decision of the Council, yes, so. 00:56:34
I I think we need to be. 00:56:40
I think we need to have more information because I think we need to understand, does this impact in any way the building authority 00:56:44
budget? 00:56:47
So until I'm until I understand. 00:56:51
If there's any savings from the building authorities budget. 00:56:55
I'm not ready to approve this yet. 00:57:01
So I think that's where I'm at. I'm not saying no, I'm just saying I think I need a little more information. How much money is it 00:57:06
all in 55,000 I believe, but I can double check that. 00:57:12
65 I was looking in the budget, I think it was. I think I seen it. 00:57:19
Called out in the jail budget. 00:57:25
Specifically. 00:57:29
To clarify, you said 55? Yeah, $55,619. That's just for the salary. 00:57:31
Then we have we also be living on the highway. That's just the salary. Then we'd have benefits on top of that, so another 20% on 00:57:39
top of that. 00:57:43
I don't know. I mean should there be some savings that come out of the out of the? 00:57:48
Out of the building authority budget, if that's up to the commissioners and you all to discuss that, if we approve this, I don't 00:57:54
know. That's just a question that I have. I'm looking at the functional side of the jail and what we need to do. And I think even 00:57:59
before it was presented, if I'm not mistaken, 80% of the work of maintenance has done the job and the building authority 00:58:04
standpoint. 00:58:09
I'm not going to speak on behalf of their budget or what they do. You know, we've worked with them on a lot of things and we'll 00:58:14
continue to work with them, but we just feel over the last. 00:58:18
Several months up to six months, eight months, we've been analyzed this type of position, look at the future needs now as well 00:58:23
with the Frankenziger building. We just feel this is an important step in that right direction to do this. And the problem is, is 00:58:31
we've sort of put a freeze on hiring, but you're asking for a new position. So and I understand, I really understand your need and 00:58:38
I understand, I just want to understand if there's any way that we can cut anything out of to cover some of this cost. 00:58:45
With the building authority provide, I'm sorry. 00:58:54
Go ahead with the building authority. Provide any. 00:58:57
Maintenance at all? 00:59:01
No, they do provide maintenance, but after this position. 00:59:04
Not within the jail, no. My hope is to still, like I said, continue to work with the development authority in terms of that. We 00:59:08
would help them, they would help us if they so choose. We work through the commissions in terms of that needs to be in a contract 00:59:13
or not. So, yeah, so. 00:59:17
We just need to have the ability and authority to have our maintenance done in the jail that we need to be doing. 00:59:23
Do you currently? 00:59:29
Contract out for maintenance. 00:59:31
That this position could be doing. 00:59:33
I believe so. I don't have those figures if we do. 00:59:36
So I think there's some things, but not a lot. 00:59:40
Could you, Sheriff, could you speak to the urgency of this position? At one point in time, I thought it was going to be built, 00:59:44
trying to be built into the 2025 budget. 00:59:48
And then use, is there maintenance that's not being done timely? Is there some issue that brought this urgency up to, you know, to 00:59:54
today? 01:00:00
And. 01:00:07
Is there going to be any additional cost that you would need any budget other than the salary? You know, obviously if there's 01:00:09
maintenance that's going to be taking place in the jail, is there a, is there a line item already existing for that? Does that 01:00:14
have to be expanded or are you going to need more if, if that liability relied on the building authority at some point in time and 01:00:19
not shifting? 01:00:25
You know is I don't, my question is, is it going to stop at the salary and benefits or is there going to need to be more? No, 01:00:31
there is already a line item, I think a maintenance line item within our budget. 01:00:35
At this point in time though, I don't see no additional cost currently speaking in terms of just the salary and the benefits to 01:00:41
that position. We are covering that within our budget already. We have put that into our 2025 budget and work that in. 01:00:48
If there's future needs for any cost of equipment maintenance, we'll work through that within our budget. 01:00:57
I'm not saying you couldn't come back and ask for cost like that. I don't know. I can't forecast that particular. But at this 01:01:03
point in time, no. 01:01:06
That answers your question. It does, partially. What about the urgency? 01:01:10
There's a lot of questions there, but there is what I just explained a minute ago, there was technical work that. 01:01:16
You all proved us to spend $192,000 and some of the technical work that we need to do needs to be done now. We were supposed to 01:01:21
start that project last Monday and so we've had to put that off until we work through this issue. So there will be additional 01:01:27
costs that I have to come back to you all probably if this is not done because that work has to be completed and I don't know what 01:01:34
those costs would be. It's technical work. Like I said, it's not a contract with the building authority. 01:01:40
They've done this work before, but it's not in their contract and and. 01:01:48
They did not want to do it this time. That's her choice. I'm not harping on that. But yes, so that's that's the urgency. 01:01:51
Can I suggest that we. 01:01:59
Just table this for a few minutes and have the building authority address some of these questions and then come back to this after 01:02:01
we understand if the building authority has any. 01:02:08
You already have a motion. Yeah, we have a motion. 01:02:16
I'm just. 01:02:20
Just a thought. 01:02:21
Well, I mean, I think we're. 01:02:24
Most likely it's heading to a vote which I. 01:02:27
I understand. I believe that the position needs, personally, I believe the position needs needs to fall under the office of the 01:02:31
sheriff for the maintenance because there's a 24/7 operation. Needs are different than maybe what the building authority can 01:02:38
provide it at some point in time, communication, things that are out of your control, yet you still have a operation that's unique 01:02:46
that needs to be taken care of. So I believe that this needs to be there. 01:02:53
Do I have the information right in front of me to make that decision? No, but I'm not against it. I think it needs to be there and 01:03:01
I'm in the same spot. I just want to hear from the building authority before we take a vote. That's all. That's where. And I'd 01:03:06
like to hear from them before we take a vote. That's where I'm at. I'm not saying let's just have Aaron come up. Are you 01:03:10
representing the building authority today? Come on up. 01:03:15
I do. I do want to first address the work he's talking about in that it would. 01:03:27
Require we figured about 30 to 40 man hours, so we had done the exact same job before. 01:03:33
In a much less. 01:03:39
It was much less work. It was something we could go over and get done and still we still felt we could fulfill our contractual 01:03:41
obligations on the other end. 01:03:46
This would be. 01:03:51
And I don't want to work unreasonable. Sounds bad, but it it would be an unreasonable request for us to be able to pull two guys 01:03:54
over there for three days worth of work and then not have them performing. 01:03:59
Anything else throughout the building? 01:04:06
We've also never not performed any work. We know that the jails of 24 or seven operation, we had two guys there on July the 4th at 01:04:08
11:15 PM until 3:00 AM fixing. 01:04:14
An issue that we had through Siemens with. 01:04:21
An alarm that was going off and we had to get the Siemens guy out here that evening to get everything fixed. We believe there's 01:04:25
ongoing stuff which you guys know about updated you guys on but so there's there's never been a request 24/7 that we haven't 01:04:31
responded to at least my knowledge. And you know we me and Steve have never had you know we've never had to have a conversation 01:04:37
about the building authority not our. 01:04:43
Contract. So the other problem that rears it said here for someone doing and it doesn't doesn't matter to me either way, but. 01:04:50
You guys said it, you guys have said it. We have a Siamese twin of buildings here and we have shared. 01:04:59
Maintenance between those buildings, we have shared systems, so if they hire someone to come in and do maintenance. 01:05:07
It would need to be very specific in what they were maintaining and not maintaining. One were under contract to maintain certain 01:05:15
systems. A lot of those are shared. So I don't think it would behoove us, them or you guys to have someone working on a system on 01:05:22
this side of the building that can in turn disrupt the that runs the other side of the building as well. They may end up working 01:05:30
against each other there rather than working together. So those are just some of the problems I foresee. 01:05:38
But you know, if it's not, if it's not going to cost any more money than the salary, that means you're hiring a 40 hour a week 01:05:46
laborer. 01:05:50
You're also hiring one guy for a 24/7 operation that I assume is just going to be. 01:05:56
Those are all things you guys, if we allow the sheriff to do this, can you cut your budget in any way to cover part of that cost? 01:06:02
I don't see where they would be. I don't see where their maintenance person would be working on anything that's in our contract. 01:06:11
So. 01:06:14
I can't trying to. I mean this is all thrown on me here in the last five minutes. So I'm trying to work my way through it too, 01:06:18
just like you guys are. Think of it the other way. What about any work that you did with the jail that you no longer have to 01:06:23
perform? Is there any savings in that? 01:06:27
Well, we don't anything that's. 01:06:33
We, we perform all of our contractual obligations. 01:06:35
And the only thing we've done is save the jail some money by handling some things that are not contractual obligations in the 01:06:40
past. 01:06:43
So we've done, I mean, it's usually small stuff. I mean, last time when we took those panels out, it was a much smaller amount of 01:06:48
work. 01:06:51
If we're over there doing something and they say, hey, this needs coffee, you know, there's there's small stuff that we do that's 01:06:55
not a contractual obligation. We just do because we're there and it's a quick job and we can do it. We try to be careful. 01:07:00
So it doesn't change our contract any. 01:07:06
And I'm not trying to speak against the Charles decision, but I don't feel that it changes any maintenance out of our contract. 01:07:10
Nor do I feel it should, again because the systems are married and the buildings married, so we would prefer not to have. 01:07:18
Someone working on the HVAC over there, that's ramific. 01:07:25
From our building. 01:07:29
And vice versa. I don't know what level of expertise the person they would hire would be, but. 01:07:32
You know, that's something else that would need to be looked at. 01:07:39
Unless it was a change to our contract where we weren't handling certain things and then obviously that would. 01:07:45
Not the the bigger systems in my opinion since they play together. 01:07:52
I mean that's what y'all would be looking at in my opinion. 01:07:56
D My bias question. 01:08:01
We have a contract. So when you say contract, what do you mean by contract? 01:08:39
We have a maintenance contract with you all with the commissioners to maintain the jail and then clearly and clearly outlines you 01:08:44
should have it, but it clearly outlines what all we're responsible for and then some. There are some some special equipment over 01:08:51
there that we are not responsible for. Some of that being in the kitchen equipment and like door locks are very specific to the 01:08:58
jail that we don't handle so. 01:09:05
And I guess since we have the contract, maybe we need to sit down with the building authority and the sheriff and then talking 01:09:13
looking these and then pull these out of the contract and then, you know, give those to the to the sheriff. 01:09:20
Yeah, that way everybody knows what their job is. 01:09:28
And all the issues are covered. That's how I feel about. 01:09:31
I agree. I don't think we're. 01:09:36
I don't think we're to the ready. I don't think we're to the point of making a decision here about the money until we understand 01:09:37
the contract and the responsibilities. Yeah, I know. I'm not. So I have a question. 01:09:45
For Sheriff. 01:09:54
This maintenance position. 01:09:57
Would do. 01:10:00
Things that you currently contract out, like he was explained in the kitchen equipment and things like that. Would that be an 01:10:02
option as well for some savings? 01:10:06
Within your budget. 01:10:10
It's an errant point, you know, we're not here to take on the HVAC system. 01:10:13
Again, our maintenance person will work with the building for distilled be my hope and I don't think they would want that as well. 01:10:16
Well. 01:10:22
So I just. 01:11:24
Sorry. So we've got what, five months left in this year? 01:11:26
So that's 23,000. I just divided 56,000 / 12. 01:11:32
So that would be leave 23,000 remaining for salary for this year. 01:11:38
It's budget time. We're working on your budgets. 01:11:45
Only because I know kind of what work you're talking about. 01:11:51
And. 01:11:59
For 40 hours worth of work. 01:12:01
For the building authority to do that would be lot. 01:12:05
More cost effective my guests. 01:12:08
You're talking probably 20 + 1000. 01:12:12
In additional appropriations from us to have that done by an outside company. 01:12:16
Roughly. 01:12:23
And that's just a guesstimate on my part, but. 01:12:25
So 23,000 for salary for five months where? 01:12:29
The maintenance person can do. 01:12:33
This, plus some things is really in an essence. 01:12:36
Going to cost us 3000 because he is going to have to come back for additional appropriation to have this work done because. 01:12:41
The work we've already approved is not going to be able to be done unless this other part gets done first. 01:12:48
And if I recall, this work was related to the security issue. 01:12:54
Correct. 01:13:00
Yes, yes. 01:13:02
Technical. Sorry, whatever. 01:13:04
That's my concern. 01:13:09
Jail safety. Staff safety. 01:13:13
Of the corrections officers in that building. 01:13:15
I mean, it's a $3000 difference for this year. 01:13:19
Possibly. 01:13:22
Might be a little bit more because my estimate on 20 plus is just an estimate. 01:13:24
Yeah, I, I, I think it's a very important position that needs to be worked in. 01:13:32
And I think I know, Denise, you and myself are on the budget. I think we need to come up with some cuts if we have to, for 55,000, 01:13:39
for the 25,000 or for the 2025 budget. 01:13:44
If we want to fit it in that way. 01:13:51
But I think this is a very important position for the 24/7. 01:13:53
And it's really going to be a washing cost for this year. 01:13:58
And I can work with the commissioners in terms of. 01:14:01
Outlining what that looks like in terms of make decisions. 01:14:04
All right. We have a motion and a second. Is there any anything else? Yeah, I just would say I mean this. 01:14:13
This is one person and does that they're going to qualify for overtime, I'm assuming because those things break, you know, but 01:14:19
outside of eight to four. 01:14:24
You know what? 01:14:30
Again, I guess what I'm hearing from the sheriff is that there's really been no work that has gone unperformed unless it's 01:14:32
attached to a special project. I think that's the only thing you were talking about was this special project that you have. You're 01:14:38
having some issues getting that done. So whether you're going to have to maybe contract that out. And then again, nothing in 01:14:44
writing with the with the, with the relationship between, you know, this position and the billing authority and how all that 01:14:49
works. So. 01:14:55
Just a few things that I think need to be ironed out. 01:15:02
Not again. I want this to work but I just I don't have enough. 01:15:07
To answer that last question, that's what that would be done with the commissioners in terms of their contract before they sign 01:15:14
off on that. 01:15:19
The other issue in terms of fundamentally speaking. 01:15:26
I don't know what the overtime would be or not. 01:15:29
And so we, you know, just like any Merida or jail officer, you don't know what all the old times going to take. 01:15:32
Place we would have our own maintenance person just like we have our own kitchen person. You know we operate a small town down 01:15:36
there and this is just another added piece. I think it's going to be beneficial for everyone in terms of what we want to do. And 01:15:41
there's no additional appropriation lease for now in 2025. We can sit down and talk about you're going to go over our budget 01:15:45
anyways and cut what you need to cut or discuss what we need to discuss and that could be part of the talking points there as well 01:15:50
so. 01:15:55
I I still have a question about whether the contract needs to be looked at to see if there's anything that needs to be changed in 01:16:02
the contract to. 01:16:06
Make sure that we're not overlapping with what the contract says and what the sheriff's going to have this new person, if I may 01:16:12
ask. We can look at it if I'm saying that we're going to work with the commissioners and outline what each one does. I mean, what 01:16:17
more would you need in terms of I want the contract to be looked at and I want there to be a clear definition of what you're going 01:16:22
to. 01:16:27
Do and what the building authority is going to do and what each is not going to do. 01:16:33
And. 01:16:40
Umm, Aaron, I mean, can't you just ask your maintenance guys to work some overtime for three days and fix this problem that we 01:16:42
have on the on the right now and then we can deal with this in 2025, the 2025 budget. Let's just work some overtime, let's work 01:16:49
three days overtime and get this thing done so we can move forward. 01:16:56
And if it costs a little more money, I mean, we just, we just need to do what we need to do here to make this happen. 01:17:05
I think they already pay overtime. He just told us that on July 4th they were there at 11:00 at night. 01:17:11
I don't. 01:17:17
I'm just asking you to go. I'm asking that you go ahead and take care of this issue in the jail so that we can move forward with 01:17:24
the project and we can address this in the 2025 budget. 01:17:30
For both the building authority and the. 01:17:37
And the sheriff and. 01:17:42
That's my ask, Karen, Is that you just. 01:17:44
Yeah, I understand. 01:17:59
And I'm asking. I mean, absolutely I'm asking. 01:18:02
What is the timeline I don't really have? 01:18:06
This is not seeing this invite or anything. 01:18:09
This should. 01:18:13
The copy is goodness. This should have been part of project. 01:18:16
So outline hook out. 01:18:22
But we still have to. So this is something we can do at all time and we can work with. I don't know who's going to work. 01:18:24
So I don't know if this is. 01:18:33
Project. It really wasn't property. 01:18:39
I got the gist. 01:18:42
How many panels have to come out and go back? And I hope. 01:18:44
Yeah, I don't know if. 01:18:47
This section needs to come out today, and it has. 01:18:52
Tomorrow and then that's actually I don't know if it has to go right back up. So for security reasons I obviously can't get. 01:18:55
So if we came in early and took them out and then say like that. 01:19:04
I don't know how it's gonna, you know, our schedule is not. 01:19:09
Our schedules fluid in the fact that stuff breaks. 01:19:13
Understand. 01:19:16
So I, I just want to, I just want to say real quick, we've got a. 01:19:18
Virtually new to three-year old. 01:19:22
Renovated jail that we paid $15 million for. 01:19:26
And the fact that we. 01:19:31
Don't have a maintenance person in that facility at all times is a concern to me because I know how people are inside that jail 01:19:33
and they're looking for anything. 01:19:39
That they can pick on and the fact that we have to wait. 01:19:46
For anyone to come fix something instead of it being taken care of in a timely manner is a concern to me from a liability 01:19:50
standpoint. 01:19:55
We have two people in that in on the conference at all times. 01:20:10
And this whole issue about the main disposition is not based off this one issue. 01:20:16
It's a fundamental approach that we need our maintenance person to jail. 01:20:22
Simple as that. 01:20:25
I've tried to answer all the questions in terms of funding, how we're going to fund it, which is no additional appropriations, 01:20:26
what we can look at for next year. This is not a knock on the building authority itself. You know, we need to be overseers of our 01:20:32
own maintenance person within the jail and and moving forward with that. 01:20:38
You don't keep track of it How often? 01:20:49
Mr. Chairman, I call with question. 01:20:54
All right, we have motion a second. 01:20:56
All in favor for the new position. Say aye aye. All opposed aye. Show hands please. 01:20:59
Thank you. 01:21:07
All right, we have two. We have three items left on the. 01:21:12
Agenda in the interest of time for those who have a deadline elsewhere, I'm going to remove the perf allocation for future 01:21:16
employees. Discussion to a future meeting, Gloria, so we have the building authority budget discussion. 01:21:24
Property of itself and then the brief update from our EMS services. 01:21:33
The building authority budget. 01:21:38
On the agenda today, I specifically further discussion. 01:21:42
I may have asked for it to be put on because I want to make sure that we're not in the position that we got into last year that if 01:21:47
when you guys have to approve the budget. 01:21:52
You guys meeting the commissioners? 01:21:59
But it got you all approved it last July in 2023 for the 2024. 01:22:02
Budget and then it got to the position where we were approving the budget and we cut $250,000 out of it and just it was. 01:22:13
It was not a good way to handle it, so if there's any cuts that need to be made to the 2025 Building Authority budget, now is the 01:22:24
time that we should do that. 01:22:29
That was my my my recommendation for putting this on. 01:22:36
Drill down just just a minute on it, I think. 01:22:44
Some of the complaint, the biggest maybe complaint was it was done mid year and there wasn't a lot of conversation about the cost 01:22:47
of the budget and when it came time to appropriations, appropriations were made or for the budget was approved less than the 01:22:55
request a few months back. And the right hand was on top of the left hand is what I understood. So I think Denise's point, now is 01:23:02
the time to be talking to each other. All of you already received proposed budget draft, yes. 01:23:10
And were there any items at present I think the capital projects list? 01:23:18
Is largely. 01:23:23
Basically. 01:23:27
Some of that's going to go away on all of. 01:23:28
They were doing their due diligence putting those on, but to let us know that those were systems. 01:23:32
Ever beyond or expected life. 01:23:37
Potential hotspots are probably aware of like, as you know, the chore that we talked about earlier is part of that, you know, so 01:23:41
part of it does overlap with the decisions we're going to be making. 01:23:46
And I believe that you have to approve this budget by July 25th, is that correct? 01:23:55
So. 01:24:05
Is there is there a way to do? 01:24:10
To get to the building authority budget in line with our normal budget process because. 01:24:15
I don't know if it's based on some type of fiscal year, but having your budget approved by July 25th is a big, big problem for us 01:24:22
since we don't sign off on ours until October. 01:24:27
Still, we have an issue with the commissioners approving in the budget and then the council saying this isn't going to work. 01:24:42
It presents a legal issue, a very bad timing issue. 01:24:52
A nice milestone when we were able to get the EMS budget. 01:24:57
Kind of brought online there. So I don't know what's going to happen before this year, but Rick and. 01:25:00
Scott, could you guys look to see if there's any latitude and trying to bring that on to the five? 01:25:04
Usual agreement from both parties. 01:25:12
So simple, I know you. 01:25:16
That was a simple MOU. 01:25:18
When you change your contract. 01:25:21
Just an application of the agreement. Is that something we could possibly do this year then? 01:25:23
Yeah, and I've got a question. 01:25:31
Before the end of the year, what's your cycle for approval? 01:25:36
October. October is our our approval. 01:25:41
We have a. 01:25:46
The budget presented us in September and our full day budget hearing. 01:25:48
But in the past. 01:25:56
No one's really been here to explain. 01:25:59
You know the needs and the different light items and well, that's because it was already approved Exactly and. 01:26:03
I'm in the camp that there should be no capital approved while we're going through this process of what we're going to do with a 01:26:12
new building. If there's an issue, we have a rainy day fund. We should not be building up a capital fund in case something happens 01:26:17
when you already have a rainy day fund. 01:26:23
The the. 01:26:29
Building authority budget should be. 01:26:31
As thin as possible. 01:26:35
For salaries and benefits or what? 01:26:38
Whatever. 01:26:41
Don't get me started on the way the whole thing set up is is. 01:26:43
It's a ridiculous setup, but anyway, we're not gonna wine here. 01:26:47
I know it's the 19th reading way to extend. 01:26:52
Our contract for the next three months based on what it already is and you get the budget soaked up for next year. 01:26:57
So. 01:27:07
Well, I'll test you 2 gentlemen with doing that. 01:27:14
And it will also look at the contract with you, but. 01:27:18
It does make sense that we can get everything on the same financial calendar. 01:27:21
OK. All right. Anything else on? Yeah, I do. We want to keep the same people on their budget. 01:27:26
Meeting. 01:27:36
For the October approval. 01:27:39
Or does somebody else want to be on the building authority budget? 01:27:41
To meet with them. 01:27:46
If we're going to extend it, we might as well treat them like every other department. Do we have specific budget assignment for 01:27:48
we're not, we're not, we're still not going to be over their their budget, still retain that. 01:27:54
But I thought the whole reason for extending it would be for somebody on the council to go through their budget, because that's 01:28:01
kind of what the issue was last. We have it right now, Let's just go through it and if you have an issue, get with the 01:28:05
commissioners. 01:28:09
So all seven of us will be on their budget. OK. I just wanted to make sure that we didn't need to meet with the building 01:28:14
authority. I just wanted to treat them like we treat every other department. 01:28:19
But that's OK, we can look at it and get with you and tell you what we like or not. 01:28:25
That's fine. The opportunity to do that. 01:28:31
In greater detail than you've had in the past. 01:28:33
So there's nothing else on that. We'll go to the Highlander and Ameripro alphabetically, I guess. 01:28:36
This never question I think or. 01:28:44
Presentation. You want to do both. 01:28:48
Good morning Brandon Alexander Highlander fire. Just wanted to take the opportunity this morning at this joint meeting to just 01:28:51
provide an update to these governing bodies as. 01:29:02
You guys did a lot of work in trying to get EMS to where it is and. 01:29:14
I think it's going well. America and ourselves are creating a good working environment together. 01:29:20
We, our crews, are working well. Run times are down. 01:29:30
As far as Highlander goes. 01:29:36
We have our ALS certification in place, um. 01:29:40
We are working on getting our staffing up. We have one truck staffed all the way up to one open paramedic spot which is being 01:29:45
filled by part timers at this time, but working on getting another individual in full time. We started to hire additional staff to 01:29:52
start. 01:29:59
Staffing our second squad, they are starting on the 1st week of August so. 01:30:06
Just in general, I think EMS is the most robust it's been in Floyd County in a long time. 01:30:15
Brian Oh, I agree. We're having the same challenges they are staffing. 01:30:26
All of our ENT basic spots have been filled. 01:30:34
We have hired. 01:30:37
3 paramedics, we still got challenges there, but we knew that would be a challenge when we started. Like you said, response times 01:30:39
are down and getting better every every day. 01:30:43
Yeah, we faced it head on and I think we're doing a good job. 01:30:50
There's been a, there's been a number of calls where both America and Highlander have worked together. Obviously the the Ace 01:30:53
Hardware incident kind of highlighted that America Pros crews were first on scene. They set up a triage center, provided staging 01:31:03
for the patients that needed to be transported and and which order they needed to be transported. 01:31:12
As far as everything's going. 01:31:22
It's looking good. We are working with the supervising hospital, Floyd Floyd Baptist Health Floyd. They are establishing a 01:31:26
committee that's going to start doing audit reviews, continuing education as well as. 01:31:33
Protocol review periodically and we're both going to be, I don't remember who on your guys department, but myself and then a 01:31:43
representative from America are going to be part of that so. 01:31:49
This really is laying a foundation for a strong EMS service. 01:31:57
So. 01:32:03
Any questions for us? Yeah, Mitchell way do you have you have these 8 agreements in place? Is that correct? And if so, how many? 01:32:08
Have you all responded to any mutual aids? Yes, there have been a number of mutual aid. We do have mutual aid with Ameripro as 01:32:14
well as all of the surrounding fire departments. 01:32:20
Just in the month of June, Highlander responded to 14 calls of service in the city of New Albany. 8IN Georgetown. 01:32:29
One in Borden, one in Sellersburg and one down in Elizabeth. 01:32:37
OK. As far as mutual aid for us, we have reached out to Tri Township and Harrison County and obviously we have mutual aids in 01:32:43
place for Highlander. 01:32:49
And we're trying to figure out how to approach a mutual aid between the city of America and the county. The mayor pro. 01:32:55
So we'll figure out how to do that. 01:33:02
OK, just start Windows. The commissioners have committed to making all of that data available on the county website monthly with 01:33:05
the emergency response times and usually. 01:33:11
CMS Advisory Board is being refined as well. Commissioner Sharp is leading on that to. 01:33:17
Have that responsibility and data analysis, quality assurance going on at least quarterly and important that to the commissioners 01:33:25
in the county at large. So it's off to a great start. 01:33:31
I do want to add one thing. 01:33:38
That you're far more meeting last night and you gave a rundown of the response times. 01:33:40
And that includes inside Highlander as well as a mutual aids. But if any way possible if you could separate that because mutual 01:33:45
aid going to Harrison County or someplace else is going to actually. 01:33:53
Make those response times higher, but in terms of way that you can segregate those for Highlander at least whenever you present, 01:34:00
whenever you you know present that that way we can see exactly what our what they are in, in the Highlander area that you guys 01:34:08
responsible for. Appreciate that. So just to clarify, you're roughly six weeks into the the new contract, if you will. Are you on, 01:34:15
on par with where you think where you expected things to be if you exceeded it? Is there any unforeseen challenges that have come 01:34:22
up that maybe we need to address? 01:34:29
I think you've already answered it, but just to just to clarify that are we, are we where, where we thought we would be? Are we 01:34:37
doing well? Are we exceeding those? 01:34:41
Situation, yeah, so. 01:34:49
But no call was gone unanswered. Everything is good there and it seems like you have a great working relationship. Thank you. 01:34:59
And I think I may have misunderstood, but so currently you have two part-time paramedics. 01:35:06
No, currently we have. 01:35:13
5 part-time paramedics and we have two full time paramedics. 01:35:17
And then August, you have another paramedic card. 01:35:24
We are working on getting another paramedic hired by August. Yes. 01:35:28
His interview is on Monday. 01:35:32
And then you guys have all your certifications. 01:35:35
Your individual Highlanders certifications. 01:35:39
To run an ambulance from top to bottom. 01:35:44
Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you for your continued help. 01:35:52
Thank you. 01:35:56
We're moving #4 the PERF discussion to it, our next joint meeting. And that's when again. 01:36:01
August 27th, four, 4:00 PM. 01:36:33
Thank you. 01:36:37
Nothing further. 01:36:39
I'm good, I'm good. 01:36:43
I'm good. All right. I just want to say it's a pleasure working with both of these bodies. Everybody seems to be in it for the 01:36:45
right reason. Everything I can tell, everybody appears done. A lot of behind the scenes work on all these projects that were 01:36:52
presented today. So very proud to be part of the team. And with that, I'll look for a motion to adjourn. Second, we're not 01:36:59
adjourned yet. What's that? OK. 01:37:06
Reconvene. 01:37:15
Need approval for. 01:37:18
6/25/24 Joint meeting minutes. 01:37:21