No Bookmarks Exist.
The Council. 00:00:04
Friday, July 19, 2024 If you'll please silence your cell phones and you need to have a conversation, we've got the the hallway 00:00:06
you'll rise and join for the Pledge of Allegiance, please. 00:00:11
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:00:18
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:24
All right, thank everyone for being here. We have a busy agenda, but I am told that we have open-ended possession of the room 00:00:32
until about 4:00 PM this afternoon. So I'm joking. We won't be here that long, but we'll probably go a little bit after the 11:00 00:00:39
hour. Mr. Springle is not present, but he is on his way. I have two messages that indicates that. So we will go ahead and begin in 00:00:46
his absence. We do have an agenda before us. We're going to add. 00:00:53
To that presentation from Highlander Fire with regards to an update on. 00:01:01
1st. 00:01:06
I just have the high wind right here. Didn't see it, sorry. Thanks. So we'll hear from them towards the end of the meeting. The 00:01:10
agenda that was handed out had 12345. We're going to bring 5 up to #1 before our presentation from envoy. So I. 00:01:17
County Attorney Rick Fox is going to join us for those two items. I'm just going to give a brief recount of what this is about. We 00:01:27
kind of started a. 00:01:31
Oh, I don't know, called a tradition or whatever, but with the Commissioner Sharp had his Project Elvis, which was kind of a code 00:01:38
name for animal care and control. That was kind of not public at the time that we were doing it. And for the last four or five, 00:01:45
six months, we've been kicking around Project Runaround, which is what I'm going to unveil here right now, which is. 00:01:53
That the Commissioners of the Council jointly have been looking long and hard for space to fulfill some of our needs. 00:02:01
Everyone in the county knows that the former City County building. 00:02:11
Is in absolute need of repair. We're here at length about that from our owners, representatives, the Envoy group momentarily on 00:02:16
that. 00:02:20
But we have identified a piece of real estate, beautiful piece of real estate that we're going to pursue the purchase of. So 00:02:25
project runaround was about 120 W Spring Street, which is the Chase building, the Chase building and the parking lot behind it, 00:02:31
the Circle K. So just a brief summary. We're going to get into details on this down the road. The reason I bring this up at this 00:02:38
moment is that during the Envoy presentation, you're going to hear reference to the Annex over and over again. And the Annex is 00:02:44
the Chase Building. 00:02:51
22,176 square feet, four floors. There are current tenants within the building. It is our intent to honor those leases and have 00:02:58
those burned out gradually over the next few years we'll be getting some revenue from the tenants on that that we intend to put 00:03:07
into a non recurring fund for building maintenance. 45 current parking spaces as compared to the 27th we currently have at the. 00:03:17
County building with the. 00:03:27
Capability of increasing that to 70 parking spaces downtown if we were to ever remove the drive through banking corridor. Of 00:03:31
course all these plans are are in motion. I mean there might be utility having that drive through for tax payment purposes and 00:03:38
things like that down the road. The purchase price agreed upon is $8,650,000. 00:03:46
We're estimating somewhere between $500 million for remodeling on that as well. The primary funding on that's going to be through 00:03:54
the cumulative capital development tax that was imposed last year. So we feel like there's a real good fit with the parts of the 00:04:00
revenue that we have coming in on that. So we're not anticipating the need for any tax increase to pay for this building. We also 00:04:06
have some leftover American Relief Program Act that we're going to put towards the initial payment on that. So we would 00:04:12
anticipate. 00:04:19
Signing the contract on that momentarily. 00:04:26
And later this year, handing out details for transition occupancy, which will begin as early as 2025 for some of the office space 00:04:29
and as late as perhaps 20312032 on the 1st floor for the Chase building if they execute their option for renewal on the lease. But 00:04:36
again, in the meantime, we're going to be capturing rent revenue off of that. 00:04:44
So we'll be around to answer questions on that after the meeting. Right now want to be ripped up for? 00:04:52
5A and 5B. 00:05:00
Thank you with regards to the contract. 00:05:05
As you indicated, $8,650,000 that is subject to us obtaining the bond financing to. 00:05:10
Get the sale approved. Obviously, we have to have the financing in order to purchase the building. This contract's been reviewed 00:05:22
by Barnes and Thornburg. Steve Langdon on behalf of the County Council and myself. 00:05:30
And so it's a 21 page agreement and. 00:05:40
We would be here to 4:00 if. 00:05:45
We went through all the terms of the agreement. 00:05:48
I will tell you the legal counsel has approved it and we've been through it in detail with regards to the terms and we're looking 00:05:52
for approval by the commissioners. 00:05:57
OK. And so at this moment again, the Commissioners meeting within this joint meeting are asked to consider that one thing I didn't 00:06:03
mention, I'm sure. 00:06:07
Mine is what are you going to move over there? And it's going to be basically a move of the taxes minus the clerk's office. 00:06:11
So the idea is that, and again, I don't wanna steal they all Thunder, but we're gonna be talking about expansion of the courts 00:06:19
over the next decade. And so trying to empty out as much space from the building that we've had as it goes under information 00:06:25
replacement. 00:06:30
So down the road we'll be having the. 00:06:37
Everybody but you ought to be the recording, the auditor, or the treasure. 00:06:43
The assessor's office and other folks that we'd be bringing in there. 00:06:45
So. 00:06:49
I do have just I'm sure it's going to be asked as far as the where appraisals done on the property. 00:06:51
How there was this price established our appraisals going to be needed for this property that. 00:06:58
I know it's going to be asked. 00:07:02
Appraisals were obtained on the property and. 00:07:04
There the top appraisal was. 00:07:10
8,650,000 The other appraisal was below that. 00:07:14
Statutorily, in terms of the Commissioners, umm. 00:07:21
You're looking at a statute that would require the average of the two appraisals in terms of the financing, how this is being set 00:07:26
up. We've set it up with a building corporation. That corporation has already been set up and I have the statement here for you to 00:07:32
approve here in just a minute. 00:07:38
And so the corporation is the one purchasing the building. And so therefore they're not bound by the average of the two 00:07:46
appraisals. And so this is what was needed in order to purchase the building. 00:07:54
8,000,525 they were not very far off. The other one, the lower one was 8,000,400 and something so. 00:08:03
We get the exact numbers. 00:08:15
Building corporation. I don't remember the low and I know it was very close. 00:08:17
That's fine. 00:08:26
All right, so if there are no. 00:08:28
For the discussion on that, I'll look for a motion to approve. 00:08:31
Signage of desk contractors that was in the contract. 00:08:35
So moved. 00:08:38
Second, all in favor? 00:08:39
All righty. And as a follow up on the building corporation that was set up, I have. 00:08:43
A bill here from the state of Indiana for $94.00 that I need you all to approve if you would. And then I'll pass this on to 00:08:50
Susanna who will prepare the warrant, send it on to our auditor for payment, and we'll take care of the state. Motion to approve. 00:08:58
And I'll second, OK, Again, that's 94 dollars, 94.00, correct? That is correct. All in favor. 00:09:06
And the last item I have is a contract from Stifel. 00:09:17
And Stifle is the company that will be marketing the bonds. And so it's a standard contract that all the bonds that we've had 00:09:21
issued in the past. 00:09:26
So asking for your approval there. 00:09:33
Motion to approve. I'll second. Motion to second, All in favor. 00:09:37
Aye, and I'll get your signatures after the meeting. 00:09:41
And Ricky mentioned about forming the building Corporation. Is that part, that part of what we just approved or is that a 00:09:46
separate? 00:09:49
OK, Yeah. 00:09:54
That's good. The deal. 00:09:55
Thank you. 00:10:00
All right. So we'll move on to our presentation from Envoy. Again, part of the process has been hiring a building representative. 00:10:02
Again, that's going to pay for our CCD funds that we have. 00:10:08
Implemented last year, coming in this year as well and. 00:10:16
We were not quite daily with Dale, but at least every other week we all get together at least a couple times. We. 00:10:20
I have a discussion so the presentation we have today, all the members up here did get a printed out copy of this as well. 00:10:28
Can I make one of those available to the process of logic worse? 00:10:36
That further take place. 00:10:41
Thank you. I'm excited to be here today. Last time we were before you, we were starting to ask the questions about what can we do 00:10:43
to move this building forward. Thinking about three options. Do we keep the building and completely rehab it? Do we look at a 00:10:51
partial rehab or do we look at a new build? So that's the lens we've been looking at as we've started to evaluate this building 00:10:58
and I'm excited to see we're already making steps forward with the with the annex as we go through. 00:11:06
Go through this presentation, a lot of that will start to make sense of how these these pieces can fit together. I will give the 00:11:14
caveat that anything in this presentation is not fine. This is very schematic, but it goes to prove the point of where we're at 00:11:21
and hope and help us to make decisions going going forward. 00:11:28
You know, last time we talked, we also talked about what about structure of the building, what about the environmental 00:11:36
considerations, asbestos, lead paint. 00:11:40
All the things we might want to think about, we're going to run through some of that here today too, just so you can see the depth 00:11:44
we've gone into to understand this building, understand what we need to do. So here's a quick agenda of what we'll run through, 00:11:50
and I'm going to turn this over to Brittany to talk through. 00:11:55
Some of our home. 00:12:02
Thank you, Dale. 00:12:07
As now mentioned, this has been a joint effort with multiple. 00:12:09
Hands involved Envoy that Dale and I are here for. We are owners, representatives. We're also here today with Michelle Allen 00:12:13
Reese, which has been the architect throughout this process. S and ME did the asbestos and LED study. We had Ameresco come in that 00:12:20
evaluated the mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems also referred to throughout the presentation as MEP. And then KPFF came 00:12:27
in and did a simple analysis of the current judicial center. 00:12:33
This has been a long ongoing process. As Dale mentioned, we've taken a look at all of the analysis that were performed. We have 00:12:42
met along with Michelle Allen Reitz to go through and interview a different department and and get their voice and opinions heard 00:12:48
for what they need as far as space. What they're looking at is for anticipation of growth. We've taken all of this information 00:12:54
that we received through the different reports and analysis that were performed and compiled this presentation in today that you 00:13:00
will be receiving. 00:13:06
As Dale also mentioned, we did take a look through the lens of three options. 00:13:13
As going through with this presentation with that being a partial remodel, a complete rehabilitation of the current building and 00:13:17
then a new construction building. 00:13:20
I'm going to walk through some of the findings and assumptions that we have for the asbestos and lead study, the structural 00:13:29
analysis. 00:13:32
The review of the mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems and then I'm going to hand it over to Angie who is going to go 00:13:35
through the space cleaning analysis and deal will kind of wrap up with the overall conclusion of what we have for our lien costs 00:13:40
and go through our three options. 00:13:44
First, I would like to discuss the finding the assumptions that we have for the asbestos and lead study as an. 00:13:51
And get taken care of. It's another thing that they found was lead based paint. A lot of this was in downstairs in the metal cage 00:14:33
and the maintenance offices. There was also an other paint throughout the building. You can see the metal Cafe and maintenance 00:14:40
office is one of them. In the basement throughout the building there's different tiles that also came up for having lead paint. 00:14:47
They also found other materials that were located as you can see on here, that were classified as just other regulated materials 00:14:55
and universal waste throughout the building. 00:14:59
Here are some images you can see that they included in their analysis. There were some issues of asbestos. You can see the floor 00:15:07
tiles. There was some. 00:15:11
Areas that we're concerned down in the basement, you can see where they took samples from some of the ceilings and you can see the 00:15:15
wood panelings that are located throughout the buildings where they did find that asbestos that. 00:15:20
The next thing I have is the structural analysis. KPFS came through and did a structural analysis of the whole building. 00:15:30
As well as they also looked at the current Indiana building code for existing structures, they indicated where there were some 00:15:37
that there were some standards that were not currently being met according to the ending in a building code for new structures. 00:15:43
What they found the biggest issues with the structure was mainly the 1st floor. There's a lots of slab cracking as well as water 00:15:50
infiltration because of the slab cracking on the first floors. 00:15:55
Also the entryways is where you can see that this is present of a lot of the water infiltration coming into the first floors as 00:16:01
well as the slab cracking. There's also some of the the stairwells that you can see that there's cracking because of movement and 00:16:06
shifts in the building just due to age. 00:16:11
There were some exterior issues as well, concrete falling on the canopy. Some of there was issues to some of the curtain wall 00:16:17
along the exterior of the building. 00:16:22
Here is a list of just a couple of the items that they touched. Based on that, we're not meeting code requirement due to the for 00:16:29
the 2014 Indiana building code. 00:16:33
KPF put together a list here that you can see the recommendations are color-coded based on current hazard levels. Items in wet red 00:16:42
are recommended to be addressed immediately. Items in yellow or future, and then items in green are the least areas of of needing 00:16:48
remediation right now. 00:16:54
The high things that they touched on were the paneling on the curtain wall. They said future panels could fall into the sidewalk 00:17:01
endangering public safety. They recommend replacing panels. The other big thing that I had mentioned and touched on was the 00:17:06
cracking on the 1st floor vegetables and cracks on the 1st floor where you having water infiltration come in, mainly at the 00:17:12
entrance points. 00:17:17
Here are some images that you can see. The 1st is kind of in the lower left hand corner is where you can see some deterioration 00:17:25
around the main entrance. Then you can see cracking that we have along the entrances that also as we're having water infiltration 00:17:31
come in as well as getting into the basement. 00:17:36
Then that middle image there is some cracking that we have interior close to the elevator on the 1st floor. 00:17:42
After that you can see cracking on the stairwell where it's going through the structure and then you can see on the last image is 00:17:49
where there's some cracks that are located on some of the ceilings. 00:17:54
Here is an example of where you can see how that kind of structural repair takes place. Just so a good visualization, this is the 00:18:01
closest thing that we could find of what they would do for that building. This is some structural repair on a on a garage where 00:18:08
you can see where they actually will cut sections of the structure out and work to replace it. 00:18:15
Ameresco came in and they did an analysis of the mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems. 00:18:26
The big thing that they found here when they did it, we know that HVAC, the HVAC system is something that they heavily looked at 00:18:34
when they presented theirs. We kind of broke theirs up a little bit differently and we presented theirs as going through with the 00:18:41
three options with a partial remodel, a complete rehabilitation and then a new build and looking at the partial remodel. 00:18:48
They would have to go back in a little bit more and assess to see what could be salvage as far as the current air system. 00:18:57
Go back in for electrical and see what else can be, what can be salvage and what cannot. But we know do know from their analysis 00:19:06
that the HVAC is is not in good shape. 00:19:10
Here's their assumptions that they made as well for partial remodel, complete rehabilitation, a complete rehabilitation, part of 00:19:17
it will be phase occupancy. This could be difficult, but it would be possible because they're having to go through the building 00:19:24
and look at these systems and replacing some of it would be difficult to be able to display some of the offices. 00:19:31
Here you can see we broke out. Here just some of the MEP costs. 00:19:41
This is going to also be included in the final cost that Dale is going to touch over, but you can see what it would cost just to 00:19:46
have a partial remodel, the complete rehabilitation and the new build for some of the systems. One of this that we are looking at 00:19:53
where you can see it says jail is listed on here. We do know that we would have to have some replacement with the jail, the 00:19:59
chiller as well as the boiler. So that's where you see some of that cost is right now. Some of those items are being shared. 00:20:06
And then included in this is the additional cost for the phase occupancy for that work. And I do also want to note that on top of 00:20:13
that, they do have a 20% premium for Facebook. 00:20:18
I'll go ahead right now and brings over to Angie Michelle Allen Reeds to go over the space morning. 00:20:26
Good morning. I'm Angie clear with Michelle Elements here in New Albany and. 00:20:36
Wanted to share with you a little bit about the space planning analysis that we were grateful to have the opportunity to be a part 00:20:43
of. 00:20:46
We've got a lot of historical knowledge, but we tried to approach this objectively and. 00:20:50
Talk to each department and assess what their current usage is in the building and then what their current are there. 00:20:57
They have current needs on top of how they're using it, and then also they haven't. 00:21:06
Future needs that need to be addressed as well as anticipated growth. So there's a series of. 00:21:10
Ways to look at this and. 00:21:17
We were tasked with. 00:21:19
Thinking about this in a way so that it would fit into the three categories and. 00:21:23
Our first step was assessing the current space usage and. 00:21:28
We. 00:21:33
Had to take the square footage, which is very simple to do and talk about. We need the these many more desks. We have this much 00:21:35
growth that would happen if a future court would occur, things like that. 00:21:41
What is not so easily quantifiable is the. 00:21:47
The common non tangible elements such as space, function and. 00:21:51
Within the departments between each other, such things as security, you know, within the site, the building and each court and 00:21:57
associated offices, separating the public, the inmates, the judicial circulation and the holding and waiting space for all of 00:22:04
those departments. The efficient use of these spaces. 00:22:11
The hearing rooms and then the privacy required for fair trials and efficient and. 00:22:20
There on each side so that. 00:22:26
The judges have what they need, and then the public has what they need. 00:22:34
So that was a little bit harder to quantify some of those things and that's where you'll see some of the differences in. 00:22:38
Percentages of. 00:22:45
Circulation and extra space that needs to be accounted for. The building that we have right now is very high in circulation 00:22:48
percentage. 00:22:52
And. 00:22:57
Such things as bathrooms and restrooms. 00:22:59
Hallways. 00:23:04
The mechanical spaces, all of those things are at like a 25% usage factor on the on this building that we have right now due to 00:23:06
the layout of the space and the confines of the the existing walls. If we would go to a new space that can be handled differently 00:23:13
in a much more efficient way, we can arrange things. 00:23:20
To handle it. 00:23:28
The building can be renovated and it can be improved quite a bit. It's just that these things are hard to quantify on a square 00:23:31
foot basis and we were asked to do that to be able to plug some of that into. 00:23:37
So that you have three options that can be compared. So it's quite. 00:23:44
Complex. Even though it looks very simple, when you say existing square footage and future square footage needs, there's a lot 00:23:48
that's not in writing there. 00:23:52
So if there's any questions, I'll be glad to address those separately or one-on-one if you have any. I'm not going to take you 00:23:57
through and read out all of these square footages, but what you'll see is the partial remodel addresses quite a bit less square 00:24:05
footage in order to be able to utilize that same building without the. 00:24:13
Complete overhaul of the building itself. 00:24:23
We would have less rate. Well, they'll get into that on the next stage there's we have a list of items that apply so. 00:24:27
Right here we have partial remodel in the. 00:24:36
26,000 square footage, the complete rehab at 66,000 square footage and the new building at 84. 00:24:38
1000 but then if we take out the annex, that's just been discussed. 00:24:46
Down to 62, so it's much more comparable because we can take out the spaces that are. 00:24:50
Non judicial. 00:24:55
That don't have to be in the same building. 00:24:57
Thank you, Angie. So what does this mean to everyone? Well, let's start talking about how these options compare and where we where 00:25:09
this takes us from here. 00:25:13
So if we look at a partial remodel, when we're looking at that, we're thinking about the space that's vacated by the departments 00:25:18
that would be moving across to the annex and how those faith and also the space that was vacated by the city and how that all 00:25:24
would be remodeled as part of this. And then adding on top of that the entryways that would need to be remodeled to the the main 00:25:30
entrance there and also the smaller entrance to the north to address that slab cracking issue. So that's where the partial remodel 00:25:36
takes us. 00:25:43
There is a definite amount of fluidity and how much a remodel would go on with that. If there is more space that's desired to be 00:25:50
looked at, we can certainly do that. 00:25:55
If the budget requires us to look at less space, we can look at that too. This by the program of who's moving out seem to make the 00:26:01
most sense. 00:26:06
So in a partial model, you get to retain your directors or prisoner transport between the jail and and this building. You don't 00:26:11
have to use vans, you don't have to use the passport facility, you can. 00:26:18
And keep it internal. That is a huge benefit. 00:26:26
We get to reuse the historic building. 00:26:29
And. 00:26:32
And keep it operable for for years to come. The construction cost is is lower. That's primarily due to the fact that we're 00:26:34
controlling our scope. There's just less square footage in this, so there's less cost. 00:26:40
It will have a long construction duration. This will be the most complicated option. There's lots of moving pieces because we 00:26:49
won't be touching the whole building. 00:26:53
The judicial staff will have to move multiple times. 00:26:59
When the 1st floor is being renovated, I don't necessarily see a path to this building being operable. 00:27:04
It's going to be loud. Courts should not be operating when they're jackhammering on the 1st floor. 00:27:10
Let alone if they could, we could even figure out a way to get them up to the courts with with that operation going on because 00:27:18
that damage is right in front of the elevators. 00:27:22
The other things to to think through, we will need to look at temporary space then because we will have to vacate for a while. 00:27:30
Your temporary space need is less in the partial remodel because we're just not going to have as long of a overall duration, but 00:27:37
it is it would be pretty disruptive to the courts. So we'll need to make sure we find them good accommodations. The other part is 00:27:44
this would become a phased project, the parts of the building that wouldn't necessarily be renovated. 00:27:51
They will likely need to be a subsequent project down the road. 00:27:58
But that said, we are looking at upgrading that mechanical electrical plumbing to to at least get that addressed, get the fresh 00:28:03
air addressed, get the air handlers addressed. It also includes remediation for. 00:28:09
The the basic needs of the asbestos. 00:28:17
Some things like the asbestos tile. 00:28:21
If we're not renovating an area, we really don't have to move it because we're not disturbing it, but a complete rehab as I'm 00:28:23
talking about here. 00:28:27
We have to abate everything. We have to get rid of all the asbestos tile. We have to get rid of all the asbestos and the. 00:28:32
And the HVAC system, we have to worry about the lead paint and the curtain wall. 00:28:39
Again, with that complete rehab, you get to retain your direct prisoner transport you get to. 00:28:44
You get to have the space for the crooks to grow. I mean, as you solve the space analysis in either the partial rehab, the 00:28:54
complete rehab or the new build. The annex allows us to have the space for growth. 00:29:00
Which allows this building to to meet our current need and our our future need. 00:29:07
So then we talked about a new build. A new build is where you have the most cost control because we can completely control the 00:29:15
scope. 00:29:19
Temporary workspaces wouldn't be needed. There would be an acknowledgement of there might be some some temporary pain with the 00:29:25
current building because over the next I'd say two years that would take to get a new building designed and built. 00:29:34
Something might break and we'll have to address that because we would not be going on a. 00:29:43
Proactive basis. At that point we just be using the building until something is ready. 00:29:48
Your construction duration would be shorter so long as we have land to use. Land acquisition could delay things, but if we have 00:29:54
land to use then this is the fastest path forward. 00:29:59
Your move management would be the simplest. You one day are in this building, the next day you are in the other building. 00:30:07
The thing we really want to consider with this is this building and the jail are completely intertwined. They share HVAC systems, 00:30:14
they share power system, they share a lot. So and there's a lot of upgrades needed there even in the base scenario. So we've we've 00:30:20
accounted for all of that. 00:30:26
Today, I'll just before you go for that search, I like to think of these two buildings assigning twins kind of connected at the 00:30:32
heart, yes. So that last bullet point when you say separate, what actually conceptually look like at the end of the day, would it 00:30:39
be a block house where the current city county building is? And then yes, if we were to do a new build and it was not on this 00:30:46
site, if you would pick a different site. 00:30:52
We would have to do something with the central plant. There's if you look at the horseshoe of how the jail and the city county 00:31:00
building are hooked together, in the middle there where the drive goes back is a central plan. 00:31:07
We would have to change out some equipment and right size it to this building because for example, the children, if we take away 00:31:13
the city county building, that shoulder is dramatically oversized for your needs. That's why on the slides that Brittany was 00:31:19
presenting, there was $100,000 delta on the equipment because we can get a smaller chiller. 00:31:26
But the the flip side you'll see when we go through here is then you'll have an open wall to the side of the jail and you'll have 00:31:34
a big hole. 00:31:37
So we have to fill that hole, we have to stabilize the site and we have to sure up the side into the jail so that it is enclosed, 00:31:42
inoperable. 00:31:46
So disclaimer, any of the numbers that I'm showing you, they're, they're very fluid. 00:31:54
They truly are, but we have to draw a line and where our analysis is now so we can pick a path forward. 00:31:59
A lot of these costs can be controlled through scope, through square footage, but to make an educated decision on how to move 00:32:06
forward, this is this is where our analysis is taking us. So partial remodel all, all of our options have the same table. So you 00:32:12
can see apples to apples what we're what we're considering. 00:32:19
Construction cost, soft cost, so that ends up being your contingency, developer fees, things of that nature, temporary housing. 00:32:27
That's finding a building, building it out to house the courts and support staff. 00:32:37
Our estimate doesn't contemplate all of the staff in that number, so we would have to find where we've got space for them. If 00:32:43
there's space in this building, if there's space we can free up in the annex faster, we have to consider that. 00:32:50
We've included the abatement, we've included the structural repair. 00:32:59
We've also included the the jail MEP remodel. 00:33:05
To a total of just over $18 million. 00:33:10
Now go to a complete rehab. 00:33:14
This is essentially gutting the building down to the concrete decks. This is a concrete building with. 00:33:18
Basically just concrete floors or posts. 00:33:29
This would take it down to that and build it back. 00:33:31
All new electrical, all new plumbing, all new all new all new everything. New curtain wall. 00:33:34
Brand new building, just reusing the structure that's underneath. 00:33:40
We'd still fix the structure, we'd fix, you know what's going on the 1st floor with. In either of these scenarios, we look at 00:33:44
adding capacity to make this building better for the long term. At elevators that you know are appropriately sized. Add lobby 00:33:51
space so people waiting for court actually have a place to wait instead of in the hallway. 00:33:58
Either of these scenarios, look at. Look at that. 00:34:06
This comes to a total of 33,600,000. There's some room on this one to move, but not a lot of. 00:34:09
And that's just the nature of the nature of it. If we take that building down to its structure, it's going to take a lot to put it 00:34:19
back. 00:34:23
There is a note on here too. It doesn't include the seismic retrofit. One of the things KPF identified in their chart was the 00:34:29
building does not meet the current structural requirements of seismic design. 00:34:35
I'm not trying to say your buildings unsafe. 00:34:43
I'm not trying to say that at all, but your building was designed in 1959 and built in 1960. It was not built to today's 00:34:45
standards. 00:34:48
So that is something that I want to put out there just for Full disclosure. 00:34:53
By code, you don't have to do anything about it, it's not a requirement. 00:34:57
But if seismic is of concern. 00:35:00
I would steer you towards a new build because the seismic retrofit could be in the 10s of millions of dollars. 00:35:05
And that would just destroy any budget for reuse of the facility. 00:35:11
So then a new build, you'll notice that there is a. 00:35:19
About a 10% cost premium to get a new build keeping the same square footage. As Angie mentioned, in a new scenario we could get 00:35:22
more efficient with our space. So we could get that store footage number down some. And if that number was was too much, we've got 00:35:29
more flexibility to drive it down because we can look at what's our program. 00:35:36
But apples to apples, this is our new build number. Now, there's some things you don't have to worry about in this situation. We 00:35:44
don't have to worry about temporary housing. 00:35:48
The abatement actually becomes a lot simpler because we don't. 00:35:54
There's friable and non friable when it comes to asbestos. 00:35:58
So we only have to worry about the friable when it comes to don't full demolition. 00:36:02
The stuff that's adhered in place and is not going to go airborne. 00:36:07
We don't necessarily have to abate the same way, so long as we're sending it to a certified landfill. 00:36:11
Most of the people that would demo a building like this use a certified landfill to begin with, so it's not really a concern. 00:36:18
So there are some other costs we didn't factor into the muddy the water a little bit. 00:36:26
Fixtures, furniture and equipment. So desks, TV's, office furniture. Usually in a build like this, people would want to upgrade 00:36:31
that. We didn't include it because that just made the water kind of kind of muddy. It's certainly something we can look at, but 00:36:37
not for this, this conversation. Same thing with information technology, access controls. That's a whole whole other concept we 00:36:44
can talk about once we make a decision on on how we want to approach this book. We all still include site acquisition. I know the 00:36:50
county has property. 00:36:57
Maybe we want to use it, maybe we don't. 00:37:05
We could look at a different site, but that would increase the cost of the new poll option. 00:37:07
So just some. 00:37:12
Top level considerations, partial remodel at your lowest upfront cost, but you're gonna have to plan for the future on that one. 00:37:13
Complete rehab. It is slightly less expensive than a new build, but. 00:37:21
There's a lot of. 00:37:26
Intricacies there to making that work. 00:37:28
In terms of moving people around and just making all the move management work. 00:37:31
And then a new build. Logistically it is the easiest, but. 00:37:36
That is, is not inexpensive as well. 00:37:41
So and. 00:37:46
Commissioners asked me to to provide an update of what we what we've spent so far out of the. 00:37:48
Out of the revenue we have available. 00:37:55
And that's that's the sum total. 00:37:57
$287,500. 00:38:00
Beyond that, after we move to the next phase, once we decide on a path forward, we'll want to engage a site civil designer, which 00:38:04
we've we've got estimated in there and. 00:38:10
We'll also want to further engage. 00:38:18
Ameresco to. 00:38:21
OK, we've got a path. Let's figure out this this mechanical electrical plumbing to the teeth so we understand what we're getting 00:38:23
into. 00:38:26
So the path forward of. 00:38:32
Here we're looking to you all to understand. 00:38:34
What you're thinking, What's our next step? 00:38:40
Which scenario makes the most sense for the? 00:38:43
So the county, what budget makes the most sense for the county, even if the direction is maybe like this path, please work with 00:38:46
our financial counselor to to understand what the capability is wonderful. That is the step we want to take. We've come to a kind 00:38:53
of a decision point. So we open it up to to you all to make it. 00:38:59
So thank you. Thank you for all your work today. That last slide was at our request so that. 00:39:08
Taxpayers should see where that CCD money has gone in the year 2024. 00:39:15
Having had a preview of this, knowing there might be a little bit of sticker shock. 00:39:20
Glad that Brad had EMS personnel saying anybody today just in case we might need that. 00:39:25
All kidding aside, I mean, I think at this point we have the information that we need. 00:39:32
As a body. 00:39:37
Commissioners and council jointly and everybody in this room has a stake, everybody in this county has a stake. So I think we have 00:39:39
the information that we need to make a decision with regards to how we're going to progress from here. And again, I'd like to have 00:39:44
that those conversations both individually and the public meetings and. 00:39:50
Have somebody hammered out by the time the leaves are. 00:39:56
Turning on the trees this year and see which way we're going to go with it. One final thing I wanted to articulate because we 00:39:58
discussed it before under each of these three scenarios. 00:40:03
The purchase of the annex made sense because it considerably reduced the cost of each of those correct potential options. By 00:40:09
bringing the annex online, it made the square footage of this building makes sense. 00:40:15
Otherwise, we have been looking at a larger new build or some sort of addition to this building. 00:40:22
Which I know have been explored before And then we'd end up with two kind of narrow buildings parallel to each other. The annex 00:40:31
solved a lot of pieces for us and each under each scenario, the cost of that annex work footage was considerably below partial 00:40:37
rehab, total rehab and new construction costs. So. 00:40:44
Anyway. 00:40:51
My comment is just, you know, I charge everybody here, everybody in the county, think about, let us know your thoughts. We need 00:40:53
that decision to move forward on it. 00:40:57
I do have questions. 00:41:02
On the slide, new build under the comparison options. 00:41:04
There is under temporary housing. You guys have nothing there. 00:41:09
Is that because that building would be on a different site? Because that was the assumption, correct, that we would build a new 00:41:14
build on a different site? If we wanted to reuse the current site, then yes, we would have to look at temporary housing under that 00:41:19
scenario as well. 00:41:24
OK, that's gonna be my question. Is it possible to? 00:41:30
Do a new build on the same site to bring that temporary housing back into the discussion and the temporary number we gave is based 00:41:34
on just average market rates down here with a three-year duration and a tenant build out a. 00:41:43
If their space is available that we can use that are. 00:41:53
Under county control or you know someone. 00:41:58
That wants to partner with the county that can help us out. 00:42:02
That number can go down a lot. 00:42:05
I didn't want to present you a number that was low. 00:42:08
But also, we're not pretty. 00:42:11
Numbers that are unrealistically high. Trying trying to trying to strike that that balance of just giving you some some real 00:42:13
thought, real input here. 00:42:18
I think maybe that is another. 00:42:23
I don't know, maybe a 3A where we need to understand the demo cost. 00:42:26
Of that and what it would take to whatever it would take to build on that side demo cost and temporary household is that something 00:42:32
you can put together like a three Eddy within the presentation we've got the demo cost on this option we've got the temporary 00:42:40
housing in this option so yeah we also the demo cost is already in there got you but the only so the only thing not in here is the 00:42:49
temporary house right these options are meant to be holistic views so this option taking this would take the. 00:42:57
Current building down to the ground. 00:43:07
Turn basically turn the site to seat and straw, just green space and stabilize that wall on the side of the the jail so they're 00:43:10
not just left with a exposed side of the jail. 00:43:16
I have a request I. 00:43:26
Do you have a longevity for each of these options? If we do a partial, it's going to last 10 years complete and a new build. 00:43:30
So a new building. 00:43:38
I mean depending on how we want to build it. 00:43:41
It's easy to say you've got 20-30 years of life before you're starting to think about upgrades. The structure itself, I mean. 00:43:43
I'd say it'd probably be built out of steel in the last. 00:43:52
Quite a while, but usually that 20 or 30 year windows when your mechanical systems start to start to fail and we'll start to have 00:43:55
some real repair costs. Again, we don't have any systems picked or designed. So there's decisions that can be made that swing that 00:44:03
one way or another a little bit, but just off the cuff and on a partial and a complete remnant remodel. 00:44:11
It depends how much we want to put into the mechanical systems. 00:44:20
The number that we looked at has all of like. 00:44:25
Direct replacement of the systems, so the actual units themselves we should still be looking at a similar longevity. 00:44:30
But we're not reducting it, we're not replumbing it, we're not rewiring it unless we have to. So those types of systems would not 00:44:39
have that long. 00:44:44
Right, OK. 00:44:49
Another another question for you under these scenarios that you have listed. 00:44:50
What has the most impact to the judicial courts and system and what has the least impact? I think you covered it, but I just want 00:44:55
to make sure I understood. Functionally the least impact would be a new build on a different site. 00:45:01
They can keep operating in their current capacity and their current building, and then one day they. 00:45:08
Move to the to the new courts. 00:45:13
Most impactful would be the gut rehab option. It's just it's going to be the longest time that they're out of the courts. 00:45:16
The partial falls in between. It depends how much we want to spend on the corporate force I. 00:45:25
And we'll want to work closely with the judiciary because. 00:45:32
Courthouses I've worked on, the annexes I've worked on, we've got to be really sensitive to the course and their trial load 00:45:37
because we don't want to do anything that would give them 'cause for a mistrial. 00:45:42
Any noise, any movement, we don't want to do anything to district them. 00:45:48
Although in the long run. 00:45:53
A new site would require transportation to be an ongoing right. So I was going to, I was going to ask you, Mr. Kneel, is there any 00:45:55
appetite from either one of these bodies to build a building off site? 00:46:02
I thought, I thought we were pretty much on the same page that this is we want to stay down. 00:46:10
At that. So I think if doable, people want to stay downtown, myself included. But we thought it would be proved. Sure, all options 00:46:15
understood. Just making a fresh look at it. 00:46:20
Yeah, No, I didn't. 00:46:25
Even have transportation from the jail across. 00:46:28
The shorter the better. That's the only thing that's actually missing here is. 00:46:34
I guess you would have to add somewhere between 3:00 and 4:00 and a half, $1,000,000 to the temporary housing for a new building 00:46:40
on the same footprint, if you will, on the same property. That's I think he wants to stay in the same footprint, yes. OK, Yeah, 00:46:46
'cause I just. 00:46:51
Didn't know if there was any appetite to say hey, we're going to move it because I didn't think we were there. 00:46:57
Thank you. And again trying to take the the site cost out of the out of the equation because that really could move the needle for 00:47:01
us. 00:47:06
A lot, one way or another. 00:47:12
And we don't have a necessarily a spot that we would want to put it. 00:47:15
So trying to take this really complex animal down to. 00:47:19
These three slides. 00:47:25
I noticed in the cork space that that increased by 50% and it looks like that's there's no options to this. So what was that based 00:47:29
on and how much timeline does that give us for the courts with this forecast? 00:47:37
Angie, correct me if I'm wrong, that we were looking at a 20 year horizon when we talked to the courts. 00:47:45
So the idea was to build out an extra. 00:47:52
Court space and to give it adequate space for the support staff as well. 00:47:56
Currently, the support staff and the jury rooms and the break rooms, it all kind of blends together and functionally it's really 00:48:04
difficult. So yeah, some of those spaces got quite a bit larger square footage walls. So they all. 00:48:12
Function similar to our biggest 4th. So it will just work better for the for the judiciary overall, but it does give us time to 00:48:21
expand the court. It does give us room to. 00:48:26
Add the smaller. 00:48:32
Kind of trial courts, not the full jury courts, but just kind of the hearing room type courts. It does give us room to add those 00:48:35
as well. 00:48:38
Does this include moving what you call the auxiliary court services the. 00:48:45
Adult probation. Juvenile. 00:48:50
Community corrections down to the city County building. Is this Is that part of the plan ancient? 00:48:53
You are. 00:49:00
OK. 00:49:03
Yeah, the if we didn't do, then yes, we got the space for that. 00:49:07
Partial OK. 00:49:10
The partial as well as even the complete renovation. 00:49:13
Complete renovation? Does that make room? 00:49:17
Only with a new build. 00:49:20
OK. 00:49:22
And that comes back to some of the space savings we get with a new footprint. Our current footprint is long and skinny, which 00:49:23
means we just have a lot of circulation space that eats away at that eats away at that building. In a new scenario, we could 00:49:30
potentially be a little bit more efficient with our our floor plan. 00:49:36
Would you? 00:49:48
When you. 00:49:49
Talk to the people at Rice Building. 00:49:51
What's the feel for that building? Was there any kind of cost estimate to maybe bring that up to any kind of standards or any 00:49:57
renovation or? 00:50:01
Was that was that part of the equation? 00:50:07
A lot of. 00:50:16
Very good information. So my recommendation is we all go home and read through this three times. Sleep on it. 00:50:17
We will workshop at some point in the Republican but. 00:50:25
Both formally and formally and will continue to work with you in an interim on fine tuning options. 00:50:30
As we get information, feedbacks, market issues. 00:50:37
And if you have any thoughts after this meeting. 00:50:42
Please feel free to reach out and I'm happy to happy to discuss any of the any of the options. 00:50:46
Just one quick comment. 00:50:53
The construction cost on the. 00:50:55
New build and, and the other scenarios that is based on after you talk to all of the office holders, department heads and 00:50:59
everybody else you came together, you put that together, did you talk to like the needs assessment? That's how you got to that 00:51:05
number the construction cost is based on. 00:51:11
As an envoy, we're I'm your honors Rep on this project, but I'm also a builder. So this is based on historic cost data for us 00:51:19
extrapolated out a couple years, so inflated out a couple years I. 00:51:26
And then we also loaded in those other costs being the structural repair and things of that nature to end up with, with that 00:51:34
total, total cost. So that's where we got our our cost numbers from. 00:51:41
If you actually divided it out on like a square footage basis, that. 00:51:49
Partial option on a square footage basis is a little bit less than the new build or the. 00:51:55
The complete rehab only because it becomes a tenant finish type situation and some of those spaces as opposed to a gut rehab and 00:52:02
that's a very different number. 00:52:09
Understood, the only thing else I would have is I'm not sure I have this information. Would be a comp. 00:52:16
Of the timeline in which the construction duration would be. So if you did option one, this is how much it would cost. And that 00:52:21
way we would understand if we were to move people out, how long they would have to stay temporarily before they be able to move 00:52:27
back in versus a new build, partial build or a partial rehab or a full rehab. I don't have those timelines, but would love to have 00:52:33
those. 00:52:38
With different scenarios that are different financing options. 00:52:44
As well you guys get into the weeds on that as the council on that it's possible that some of the build out. 00:52:49
Can be the owner of some of the mechanicals to reduce some of the initial overhead costs. 00:52:59
You know my feeling on this, if we feel come to the conclusion it's the right thing to do, to do a new build and. 00:53:06
It exceeds what we need to do to get a referendum. Then let's have a reference, let's have a public discussion and let's put it 00:53:12
before people and. 00:53:16
As I as I started out with when I started this discussion. 00:53:22
I presented numbers. I know the numbers are what sticks and everybody said. 00:53:26
Please don't let those be an impediment to to deciding which path we think is best, because there's a lot of room for control. 00:53:30
Either if we want to do more renovation in the partial, if we want to do less on a build option. 00:53:41
There's lots on the table, we just need to pick our our path and start understanding any of the numbers are. 00:53:48
Accurate 100% the. 00:53:55
Gap between the different scenarios I think is going to play out. 00:53:58
You know accurately that makes sense that the order of magnitude between vicinity. 00:54:01
Accurate enough for us to work through the process. Well, I think that we've had this analysis done twice in both of the analysis 00:54:07
have come back within. 00:54:11
They're very, very close. It's so we know we're looking. 00:54:16
In the range. 00:54:21
Yeah. And we're, we're two years after on these. So we're still a little bit a little bit less on the research. 00:54:23
Yeah, I don't know. I don't remember exactly, but I know they're in the ballpark. 00:54:34
Anything else for Mr. Davis at present? I know he'll be here afterwards. Thank you guys for driving down today. 00:54:39
Thank you all for your presentation, your work on this. I mean, everything feedback I've got today is that everything's been done. 00:54:46
Very, very. 00:54:49
Professionally and it was a great deal of concern for. 00:54:54
Not only current space teams for again 1520 years out, which is the way that I think we want to project together. We want this to 00:54:59
be a generation project. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. 00:55:05
All right. 00:55:12
#2 on the official agenda. Jail maintenance specialist. 00:55:16
By the way, Sheriff, they were going to close the hole in the building. 00:55:23
In the jail after completely does that, there wouldn't be an open hole in the jail. I didn't think you'd fix that, no. I figured 00:55:26
they put up a temporary wallet. Maybe it hurt and I don't know. 00:55:30
So we took that in consideration. 00:56:08
So before you, we are looking at this position to have our own maintenance position, be it a specialist pay in the jail. 00:56:10
I've been asking for additional appropriations within our budget. 00:56:18
So that's what's before you today. 00:56:22
I'll make a motion to approve the. 00:56:28
Jail maintenance specialist position. 00:56:30
And that's primarily a council decision of the Council, yes, so. 00:56:34
I I think we need to be. 00:56:40
I think we need to have more information because I think we need to understand, does this impact in any way the building authority 00:56:44
budget? 00:56:47
So until I'm until I understand. 00:56:51
If there's any savings from the building authorities budget. 00:56:55
I'm not ready to approve this yet. 00:57:01
So I think that's where I'm at. I'm not saying no, I'm just saying I think I need a little more information. How much money is it 00:57:06
all in 55,000 I believe, but I can double check that. 00:57:12
65 I was looking in the budget, I think it was. I think I seen it. 00:57:19
Called out in the jail budget. 00:57:25
Specifically. 00:57:29
To clarify, you said 55? Yeah, $55,619. That's just for the salary. 00:57:31
Then we have we also be living on the highway. That's just the salary. Then we'd have benefits on top of that, so another 20% on 00:57:39
top of that. 00:57:43
I don't know. I mean should there be some savings that come out of the out of the? 00:57:48
Out of the building authority budget, if that's up to the commissioners and you all to discuss that, if we approve this, I don't 00:57:54
know. That's just a question that I have. I'm looking at the functional side of the jail and what we need to do. And I think even 00:57:59
before it was presented, if I'm not mistaken, 80% of the work of maintenance has done the job and the building authority 00:58:04
standpoint. 00:58:09
I'm not going to speak on behalf of their budget or what they do. You know, we've worked with them on a lot of things and we'll 00:58:14
continue to work with them, but we just feel over the last. 00:58:18
Several months up to six months, eight months, we've been analyzed this type of position, look at the future needs now as well 00:58:23
with the Frankenziger building. We just feel this is an important step in that right direction to do this. And the problem is, is 00:58:31
we've sort of put a freeze on hiring, but you're asking for a new position. So and I understand, I really understand your need and 00:58:38
I understand, I just want to understand if there's any way that we can cut anything out of to cover some of this cost. 00:58:45
With the building authority provide, I'm sorry. 00:58:54
Go ahead with the building authority. Provide any. 00:58:57
Maintenance at all? 00:59:01
No, they do provide maintenance, but after this position. 00:59:04
Not within the jail, no. My hope is to still, like I said, continue to work with the development authority in terms of that. We 00:59:08
would help them, they would help us if they so choose. We work through the commissions in terms of that needs to be in a contract 00:59:13
or not. So, yeah, so. 00:59:17
We just need to have the ability and authority to have our maintenance done in the jail that we need to be doing. 00:59:23
Do you currently? 00:59:29
Contract out for maintenance. 00:59:31
That this position could be doing. 00:59:33
I believe so. I don't have those figures if we do. 00:59:36
So I think there's some things, but not a lot. 00:59:40
Could you, Sheriff, could you speak to the urgency of this position? At one point in time, I thought it was going to be built, 00:59:44
trying to be built into the 2025 budget. 00:59:48
And then use, is there maintenance that's not being done timely? Is there some issue that brought this urgency up to, you know, to 00:59:54
today? 01:00:00
And. 01:00:07
Is there going to be any additional cost that you would need any budget other than the salary? You know, obviously if there's 01:00:09
maintenance that's going to be taking place in the jail, is there a, is there a line item already existing for that? Does that 01:00:14
have to be expanded or are you going to need more if, if that liability relied on the building authority at some point in time and 01:00:19
not shifting? 01:00:25
You know is I don't, my question is, is it going to stop at the salary and benefits or is there going to need to be more? No, 01:00:31
there is already a line item, I think a maintenance line item within our budget. 01:00:35
At this point in time though, I don't see no additional cost currently speaking in terms of just the salary and the benefits to 01:00:41
that position. We are covering that within our budget already. We have put that into our 2025 budget and work that in. 01:00:48
If there's future needs for any cost of equipment maintenance, we'll work through that within our budget. 01:00:57
I'm not saying you couldn't come back and ask for cost like that. I don't know. I can't forecast that particular. But at this 01:01:03
point in time, no. 01:01:06
That answers your question. It does, partially. What about the urgency? 01:01:10
There's a lot of questions there, but there is what I just explained a minute ago, there was technical work that. 01:01:16
You all proved us to spend $192,000 and some of the technical work that we need to do needs to be done now. We were supposed to 01:01:21
start that project last Monday and so we've had to put that off until we work through this issue. So there will be additional 01:01:27
costs that I have to come back to you all probably if this is not done because that work has to be completed and I don't know what 01:01:34
those costs would be. It's technical work. Like I said, it's not a contract with the building authority. 01:01:40
They've done this work before, but it's not in their contract and and. 01:01:48
They did not want to do it this time. That's her choice. I'm not harping on that. But yes, so that's that's the urgency. 01:01:51
Can I suggest that we. 01:01:59
Just table this for a few minutes and have the building authority address some of these questions and then come back to this after 01:02:01
we understand if the building authority has any. 01:02:08
You already have a motion. Yeah, we have a motion. 01:02:16
I'm just. 01:02:20
Just a thought. 01:02:21
Well, I mean, I think we're. 01:02:24
Most likely it's heading to a vote which I. 01:02:27
I understand. I believe that the position needs, personally, I believe the position needs needs to fall under the office of the 01:02:31
sheriff for the maintenance because there's a 24/7 operation. Needs are different than maybe what the building authority can 01:02:38
provide it at some point in time, communication, things that are out of your control, yet you still have a operation that's unique 01:02:46
that needs to be taken care of. So I believe that this needs to be there. 01:02:53
Do I have the information right in front of me to make that decision? No, but I'm not against it. I think it needs to be there and 01:03:01
I'm in the same spot. I just want to hear from the building authority before we take a vote. That's all. That's where. And I'd 01:03:06
like to hear from them before we take a vote. That's where I'm at. I'm not saying let's just have Aaron come up. Are you 01:03:10
representing the building authority today? Come on up. 01:03:15
I do. I do want to first address the work he's talking about in that it would. 01:03:27
Require we figured about 30 to 40 man hours, so we had done the exact same job before. 01:03:33
In a much less. 01:03:39
It was much less work. It was something we could go over and get done and still we still felt we could fulfill our contractual 01:03:41
obligations on the other end. 01:03:46
This would be. 01:03:51
And I don't want to work unreasonable. Sounds bad, but it it would be an unreasonable request for us to be able to pull two guys 01:03:54
over there for three days worth of work and then not have them performing. 01:03:59
Anything else throughout the building? 01:04:06
We've also never not performed any work. We know that the jails of 24 or seven operation, we had two guys there on July the 4th at 01:04:08
11:15 PM until 3:00 AM fixing. 01:04:14
An issue that we had through Siemens with. 01:04:21
An alarm that was going off and we had to get the Siemens guy out here that evening to get everything fixed. We believe there's 01:04:25
ongoing stuff which you guys know about updated you guys on but so there's there's never been a request 24/7 that we haven't 01:04:31
responded to at least my knowledge. And you know we me and Steve have never had you know we've never had to have a conversation 01:04:37
about the building authority not our. 01:04:43
Contract. So the other problem that rears it said here for someone doing and it doesn't doesn't matter to me either way, but. 01:04:50
You guys said it, you guys have said it. We have a Siamese twin of buildings here and we have shared. 01:04:59
Maintenance between those buildings, we have shared systems, so if they hire someone to come in and do maintenance. 01:05:07
It would need to be very specific in what they were maintaining and not maintaining. One were under contract to maintain certain 01:05:15
systems. A lot of those are shared. So I don't think it would behoove us, them or you guys to have someone working on a system on 01:05:22
this side of the building that can in turn disrupt the that runs the other side of the building as well. They may end up working 01:05:30
against each other there rather than working together. So those are just some of the problems I foresee. 01:05:38
But you know, if it's not, if it's not going to cost any more money than the salary, that means you're hiring a 40 hour a week 01:05:46
laborer. 01:05:50
You're also hiring one guy for a 24/7 operation that I assume is just going to be. 01:05:56
Those are all things you guys, if we allow the sheriff to do this, can you cut your budget in any way to cover part of that cost? 01:06:02
I don't see where they would be. I don't see where their maintenance person would be working on anything that's in our contract. 01:06:11
So. 01:06:14
I can't trying to. I mean this is all thrown on me here in the last five minutes. So I'm trying to work my way through it too, 01:06:18
just like you guys are. Think of it the other way. What about any work that you did with the jail that you no longer have to 01:06:23
perform? Is there any savings in that? 01:06:27
Well, we don't anything that's. 01:06:33
We, we perform all of our contractual obligations. 01:06:35
And the only thing we've done is save the jail some money by handling some things that are not contractual obligations in the 01:06:40
past. 01:06:43
So we've done, I mean, it's usually small stuff. I mean, last time when we took those panels out, it was a much smaller amount of 01:06:48
work. 01:06:51
If we're over there doing something and they say, hey, this needs coffee, you know, there's there's small stuff that we do that's 01:06:55
not a contractual obligation. We just do because we're there and it's a quick job and we can do it. We try to be careful. 01:07:00
So it doesn't change our contract any. 01:07:06
And I'm not trying to speak against the Charles decision, but I don't feel that it changes any maintenance out of our contract. 01:07:10
Nor do I feel it should, again because the systems are married and the buildings married, so we would prefer not to have. 01:07:18
Someone working on the HVAC over there, that's ramific. 01:07:25
From our building. 01:07:29
And vice versa. I don't know what level of expertise the person they would hire would be, but. 01:07:32
You know, that's something else that would need to be looked at. 01:07:39
Unless it was a change to our contract where we weren't handling certain things and then obviously that would. 01:07:45
Not the the bigger systems in my opinion since they play together. 01:07:52
I mean that's what y'all would be looking at in my opinion. 01:07:56
D My bias question. 01:08:01
We have a contract. So when you say contract, what do you mean by contract? 01:08:39
We have a maintenance contract with you all with the commissioners to maintain the jail and then clearly and clearly outlines you 01:08:44
should have it, but it clearly outlines what all we're responsible for and then some. There are some some special equipment over 01:08:51
there that we are not responsible for. Some of that being in the kitchen equipment and like door locks are very specific to the 01:08:58
jail that we don't handle so. 01:09:05
And I guess since we have the contract, maybe we need to sit down with the building authority and the sheriff and then talking 01:09:13
looking these and then pull these out of the contract and then, you know, give those to the to the sheriff. 01:09:20
Yeah, that way everybody knows what their job is. 01:09:28
And all the issues are covered. That's how I feel about. 01:09:31
I agree. I don't think we're. 01:09:36
I don't think we're to the ready. I don't think we're to the point of making a decision here about the money until we understand 01:09:37
the contract and the responsibilities. Yeah, I know. I'm not. So I have a question. 01:09:45
For Sheriff. 01:09:54
This maintenance position. 01:09:57
Would do. 01:10:00
Things that you currently contract out, like he was explained in the kitchen equipment and things like that. Would that be an 01:10:02
option as well for some savings? 01:10:06
Within your budget. 01:10:10
It's an errant point, you know, we're not here to take on the HVAC system. 01:10:13
Again, our maintenance person will work with the building for distilled be my hope and I don't think they would want that as well. 01:10:16
Well. 01:10:22
So I just. 01:11:24
Sorry. So we've got what, five months left in this year? 01:11:26
So that's 23,000. I just divided 56,000 / 12. 01:11:32
So that would be leave 23,000 remaining for salary for this year. 01:11:38
It's budget time. We're working on your budgets. 01:11:45
Only because I know kind of what work you're talking about. 01:11:51
And. 01:11:59
For 40 hours worth of work. 01:12:01
For the building authority to do that would be lot. 01:12:05
More cost effective my guests. 01:12:08
You're talking probably 20 + 1000. 01:12:12
In additional appropriations from us to have that done by an outside company. 01:12:16
Roughly. 01:12:23
And that's just a guesstimate on my part, but. 01:12:25
So 23,000 for salary for five months where? 01:12:29
The maintenance person can do. 01:12:33
This, plus some things is really in an essence. 01:12:36
Going to cost us 3000 because he is going to have to come back for additional appropriation to have this work done because. 01:12:41
The work we've already approved is not going to be able to be done unless this other part gets done first. 01:12:48
And if I recall, this work was related to the security issue. 01:12:54
Correct. 01:13:00
Yes, yes. 01:13:02
Technical. Sorry, whatever. 01:13:04
That's my concern. 01:13:09
Jail safety. Staff safety. 01:13:13
Of the corrections officers in that building. 01:13:15
I mean, it's a $3000 difference for this year. 01:13:19
Possibly. 01:13:22
Might be a little bit more because my estimate on 20 plus is just an estimate. 01:13:24
Yeah, I, I, I think it's a very important position that needs to be worked in. 01:13:32
And I think I know, Denise, you and myself are on the budget. I think we need to come up with some cuts if we have to, for 55,000, 01:13:39
for the 25,000 or for the 2025 budget. 01:13:44
If we want to fit it in that way. 01:13:51
But I think this is a very important position for the 24/7. 01:13:53
And it's really going to be a washing cost for this year. 01:13:58
And I can work with the commissioners in terms of. 01:14:01
Outlining what that looks like in terms of make decisions. 01:14:04
All right. We have a motion and a second. Is there any anything else? Yeah, I just would say I mean this. 01:14:13
This is one person and does that they're going to qualify for overtime, I'm assuming because those things break, you know, but 01:14:19
outside of eight to four. 01:14:24
You know what? 01:14:30
Again, I guess what I'm hearing from the sheriff is that there's really been no work that has gone unperformed unless it's 01:14:32
attached to a special project. I think that's the only thing you were talking about was this special project that you have. You're 01:14:38
having some issues getting that done. So whether you're going to have to maybe contract that out. And then again, nothing in 01:14:44
writing with the with the, with the relationship between, you know, this position and the billing authority and how all that 01:14:49
works. So. 01:14:55
Just a few things that I think need to be ironed out. 01:15:02
Not again. I want this to work but I just I don't have enough. 01:15:07
To answer that last question, that's what that would be done with the commissioners in terms of their contract before they sign 01:15:14
off on that. 01:15:19
The other issue in terms of fundamentally speaking. 01:15:26
I don't know what the overtime would be or not. 01:15:29
And so we, you know, just like any Merida or jail officer, you don't know what all the old times going to take. 01:15:32
Place we would have our own maintenance person just like we have our own kitchen person. You know we operate a small town down 01:15:36
there and this is just another added piece. I think it's going to be beneficial for everyone in terms of what we want to do. And 01:15:41
there's no additional appropriation lease for now in 2025. We can sit down and talk about you're going to go over our budget 01:15:45
anyways and cut what you need to cut or discuss what we need to discuss and that could be part of the talking points there as well 01:15:50
so. 01:15:55
I I still have a question about whether the contract needs to be looked at to see if there's anything that needs to be changed in 01:16:02
the contract to. 01:16:06
Make sure that we're not overlapping with what the contract says and what the sheriff's going to have this new person, if I may 01:16:12
ask. We can look at it if I'm saying that we're going to work with the commissioners and outline what each one does. I mean, what 01:16:17
more would you need in terms of I want the contract to be looked at and I want there to be a clear definition of what you're going 01:16:22
to. 01:16:27
Do and what the building authority is going to do and what each is not going to do. 01:16:33
And. 01:16:40
Umm, Aaron, I mean, can't you just ask your maintenance guys to work some overtime for three days and fix this problem that we 01:16:42
have on the on the right now and then we can deal with this in 2025, the 2025 budget. Let's just work some overtime, let's work 01:16:49
three days overtime and get this thing done so we can move forward. 01:16:56
And if it costs a little more money, I mean, we just, we just need to do what we need to do here to make this happen. 01:17:05
I think they already pay overtime. He just told us that on July 4th they were there at 11:00 at night. 01:17:11
I don't. 01:17:17
I'm just asking you to go. I'm asking that you go ahead and take care of this issue in the jail so that we can move forward with 01:17:24
the project and we can address this in the 2025 budget. 01:17:30
For both the building authority and the. 01:17:37
And the sheriff and. 01:17:42
That's my ask, Karen, Is that you just. 01:17:44
Yeah, I understand. 01:17:59
And I'm asking. I mean, absolutely I'm asking. 01:18:02
What is the timeline I don't really have? 01:18:06
This is not seeing this invite or anything. 01:18:09
This should. 01:18:13
The copy is goodness. This should have been part of project. 01:18:16
So outline hook out. 01:18:22
But we still have to. So this is something we can do at all time and we can work with. I don't know who's going to work. 01:18:24
So I don't know if this is. 01:18:33
Project. It really wasn't property. 01:18:39
I got the gist. 01:18:42
How many panels have to come out and go back? And I hope. 01:18:44
Yeah, I don't know if. 01:18:47
This section needs to come out today, and it has. 01:18:52
Tomorrow and then that's actually I don't know if it has to go right back up. So for security reasons I obviously can't get. 01:18:55
So if we came in early and took them out and then say like that. 01:19:04
I don't know how it's gonna, you know, our schedule is not. 01:19:09
Our schedules fluid in the fact that stuff breaks. 01:19:13
Understand. 01:19:16
So I, I just want to, I just want to say real quick, we've got a. 01:19:18
Virtually new to three-year old. 01:19:22
Renovated jail that we paid $15 million for. 01:19:26
And the fact that we. 01:19:31
Don't have a maintenance person in that facility at all times is a concern to me because I know how people are inside that jail 01:19:33
and they're looking for anything. 01:19:39
That they can pick on and the fact that we have to wait. 01:19:46
For anyone to come fix something instead of it being taken care of in a timely manner is a concern to me from a liability 01:19:50
standpoint. 01:19:55
We have two people in that in on the conference at all times. 01:20:10
And this whole issue about the main disposition is not based off this one issue. 01:20:16
It's a fundamental approach that we need our maintenance person to jail. 01:20:22
Simple as that. 01:20:25
I've tried to answer all the questions in terms of funding, how we're going to fund it, which is no additional appropriations, 01:20:26
what we can look at for next year. This is not a knock on the building authority itself. You know, we need to be overseers of our 01:20:32
own maintenance person within the jail and and moving forward with that. 01:20:38
You don't keep track of it How often? 01:20:49
Mr. Chairman, I call with question. 01:20:54
All right, we have motion a second. 01:20:56
All in favor for the new position. Say aye aye. All opposed aye. Show hands please. 01:20:59
Thank you. 01:21:07
All right, we have two. We have three items left on the. 01:21:12
Agenda in the interest of time for those who have a deadline elsewhere, I'm going to remove the perf allocation for future 01:21:16
employees. Discussion to a future meeting, Gloria, so we have the building authority budget discussion. 01:21:24
Property of itself and then the brief update from our EMS services. 01:21:33
The building authority budget. 01:21:38
On the agenda today, I specifically further discussion. 01:21:42
I may have asked for it to be put on because I want to make sure that we're not in the position that we got into last year that if 01:21:47
when you guys have to approve the budget. 01:21:52
You guys meeting the commissioners? 01:21:59
But it got you all approved it last July in 2023 for the 2024. 01:22:02
Budget and then it got to the position where we were approving the budget and we cut $250,000 out of it and just it was. 01:22:13
It was not a good way to handle it, so if there's any cuts that need to be made to the 2025 Building Authority budget, now is the 01:22:24
time that we should do that. 01:22:29
That was my my my recommendation for putting this on. 01:22:36
Drill down just just a minute on it, I think. 01:22:44
Some of the complaint, the biggest maybe complaint was it was done mid year and there wasn't a lot of conversation about the cost 01:22:47
of the budget and when it came time to appropriations, appropriations were made or for the budget was approved less than the 01:22:55
request a few months back. And the right hand was on top of the left hand is what I understood. So I think Denise's point, now is 01:23:02
the time to be talking to each other. All of you already received proposed budget draft, yes. 01:23:10
And were there any items at present I think the capital projects list? 01:23:18
Is largely. 01:23:23
Basically. 01:23:27
Some of that's going to go away on all of. 01:23:28
They were doing their due diligence putting those on, but to let us know that those were systems. 01:23:32
Ever beyond or expected life. 01:23:37
Potential hotspots are probably aware of like, as you know, the chore that we talked about earlier is part of that, you know, so 01:23:41
part of it does overlap with the decisions we're going to be making. 01:23:46
And I believe that you have to approve this budget by July 25th, is that correct? 01:23:55
So. 01:24:05
Is there is there a way to do? 01:24:10
To get to the building authority budget in line with our normal budget process because. 01:24:15
I don't know if it's based on some type of fiscal year, but having your budget approved by July 25th is a big, big problem for us 01:24:22
since we don't sign off on ours until October. 01:24:27
Still, we have an issue with the commissioners approving in the budget and then the council saying this isn't going to work. 01:24:42
It presents a legal issue, a very bad timing issue. 01:24:52
A nice milestone when we were able to get the EMS budget. 01:24:57
Kind of brought online there. So I don't know what's going to happen before this year, but Rick and. 01:25:00
Scott, could you guys look to see if there's any latitude and trying to bring that on to the five? 01:25:04
Usual agreement from both parties. 01:25:12
So simple, I know you. 01:25:16
That was a simple MOU. 01:25:18
When you change your contract. 01:25:21
Just an application of the agreement. Is that something we could possibly do this year then? 01:25:23
Yeah, and I've got a question. 01:25:31
Before the end of the year, what's your cycle for approval? 01:25:36
October. October is our our approval. 01:25:41
We have a. 01:25:46
The budget presented us in September and our full day budget hearing. 01:25:48
But in the past. 01:25:56
No one's really been here to explain. 01:25:59
You know the needs and the different light items and well, that's because it was already approved Exactly and. 01:26:03
I'm in the camp that there should be no capital approved while we're going through this process of what we're going to do with a 01:26:12
new building. If there's an issue, we have a rainy day fund. We should not be building up a capital fund in case something happens 01:26:17
when you already have a rainy day fund. 01:26:23
The the. 01:26:29
Building authority budget should be. 01:26:31
As thin as possible. 01:26:35
For salaries and benefits or what? 01:26:38
Whatever. 01:26:41
Don't get me started on the way the whole thing set up is is. 01:26:43
It's a ridiculous setup, but anyway, we're not gonna wine here. 01:26:47
I know it's the 19th reading way to extend. 01:26:52
Our contract for the next three months based on what it already is and you get the budget soaked up for next year. 01:26:57
So. 01:27:07
Well, I'll test you 2 gentlemen with doing that. 01:27:14
And it will also look at the contract with you, but. 01:27:18
It does make sense that we can get everything on the same financial calendar. 01:27:21
OK. All right. Anything else on? Yeah, I do. We want to keep the same people on their budget. 01:27:26
Meeting. 01:27:36
For the October approval. 01:27:39
Or does somebody else want to be on the building authority budget? 01:27:41
To meet with them. 01:27:46
If we're going to extend it, we might as well treat them like every other department. Do we have specific budget assignment for 01:27:48
we're not, we're not, we're still not going to be over their their budget, still retain that. 01:27:54
But I thought the whole reason for extending it would be for somebody on the council to go through their budget, because that's 01:28:01
kind of what the issue was last. We have it right now, Let's just go through it and if you have an issue, get with the 01:28:05
commissioners. 01:28:09
So all seven of us will be on their budget. OK. I just wanted to make sure that we didn't need to meet with the building 01:28:14
authority. I just wanted to treat them like we treat every other department. 01:28:19
But that's OK, we can look at it and get with you and tell you what we like or not. 01:28:25
That's fine. The opportunity to do that. 01:28:31
In greater detail than you've had in the past. 01:28:33
So there's nothing else on that. We'll go to the Highlander and Ameripro alphabetically, I guess. 01:28:36
This never question I think or. 01:28:44
Presentation. You want to do both. 01:28:48
Good morning Brandon Alexander Highlander fire. Just wanted to take the opportunity this morning at this joint meeting to just 01:28:51
provide an update to these governing bodies as. 01:29:02
You guys did a lot of work in trying to get EMS to where it is and. 01:29:14
I think it's going well. America and ourselves are creating a good working environment together. 01:29:20
We, our crews, are working well. Run times are down. 01:29:30
As far as Highlander goes. 01:29:36
We have our ALS certification in place, um. 01:29:40
We are working on getting our staffing up. We have one truck staffed all the way up to one open paramedic spot which is being 01:29:45
filled by part timers at this time, but working on getting another individual in full time. We started to hire additional staff to 01:29:52
start. 01:29:59
Staffing our second squad, they are starting on the 1st week of August so. 01:30:06
Just in general, I think EMS is the most robust it's been in Floyd County in a long time. 01:30:15
Brian Oh, I agree. We're having the same challenges they are staffing. 01:30:26
All of our ENT basic spots have been filled. 01:30:34
We have hired. 01:30:37
3 paramedics, we still got challenges there, but we knew that would be a challenge when we started. Like you said, response times 01:30:39
are down and getting better every every day. 01:30:43
Yeah, we faced it head on and I think we're doing a good job. 01:30:50
There's been a, there's been a number of calls where both America and Highlander have worked together. Obviously the the Ace 01:30:53
Hardware incident kind of highlighted that America Pros crews were first on scene. They set up a triage center, provided staging 01:31:03
for the patients that needed to be transported and and which order they needed to be transported. 01:31:12
As far as everything's going. 01:31:22
It's looking good. We are working with the supervising hospital, Floyd Floyd Baptist Health Floyd. They are establishing a 01:31:26
committee that's going to start doing audit reviews, continuing education as well as. 01:31:33
Protocol review periodically and we're both going to be, I don't remember who on your guys department, but myself and then a 01:31:43
representative from America are going to be part of that so. 01:31:49
This really is laying a foundation for a strong EMS service. 01:31:57
So. 01:32:03
Any questions for us? Yeah, Mitchell way do you have you have these 8 agreements in place? Is that correct? And if so, how many? 01:32:08
Have you all responded to any mutual aids? Yes, there have been a number of mutual aid. We do have mutual aid with Ameripro as 01:32:14
well as all of the surrounding fire departments. 01:32:20
Just in the month of June, Highlander responded to 14 calls of service in the city of New Albany. 8IN Georgetown. 01:32:29
One in Borden, one in Sellersburg and one down in Elizabeth. 01:32:37
OK. As far as mutual aid for us, we have reached out to Tri Township and Harrison County and obviously we have mutual aids in 01:32:43
place for Highlander. 01:32:49
And we're trying to figure out how to approach a mutual aid between the city of America and the county. The mayor pro. 01:32:55
So we'll figure out how to do that. 01:33:02
OK, just start Windows. The commissioners have committed to making all of that data available on the county website monthly with 01:33:05
the emergency response times and usually. 01:33:11
CMS Advisory Board is being refined as well. Commissioner Sharp is leading on that to. 01:33:17
Have that responsibility and data analysis, quality assurance going on at least quarterly and important that to the commissioners 01:33:25
in the county at large. So it's off to a great start. 01:33:31
I do want to add one thing. 01:33:38
That you're far more meeting last night and you gave a rundown of the response times. 01:33:40
And that includes inside Highlander as well as a mutual aids. But if any way possible if you could separate that because mutual 01:33:45
aid going to Harrison County or someplace else is going to actually. 01:33:53
Make those response times higher, but in terms of way that you can segregate those for Highlander at least whenever you present, 01:34:00
whenever you you know present that that way we can see exactly what our what they are in, in the Highlander area that you guys 01:34:08
responsible for. Appreciate that. So just to clarify, you're roughly six weeks into the the new contract, if you will. Are you on, 01:34:15
on par with where you think where you expected things to be if you exceeded it? Is there any unforeseen challenges that have come 01:34:22
up that maybe we need to address? 01:34:29
I think you've already answered it, but just to just to clarify that are we, are we where, where we thought we would be? Are we 01:34:37
doing well? Are we exceeding those? 01:34:41
Situation, yeah, so. 01:34:49
But no call was gone unanswered. Everything is good there and it seems like you have a great working relationship. Thank you. 01:34:59
And I think I may have misunderstood, but so currently you have two part-time paramedics. 01:35:06
No, currently we have. 01:35:13
5 part-time paramedics and we have two full time paramedics. 01:35:17
And then August, you have another paramedic card. 01:35:24
We are working on getting another paramedic hired by August. Yes. 01:35:28
His interview is on Monday. 01:35:32
And then you guys have all your certifications. 01:35:35
Your individual Highlanders certifications. 01:35:39
To run an ambulance from top to bottom. 01:35:44
Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you for your continued help. 01:35:52
Thank you. 01:35:56
We're moving #4 the PERF discussion to it, our next joint meeting. And that's when again. 01:36:01
August 27th, four, 4:00 PM. 01:36:33
Thank you. 01:36:37
Nothing further. 01:36:39
I'm good, I'm good. 01:36:43
I'm good. All right. I just want to say it's a pleasure working with both of these bodies. Everybody seems to be in it for the 01:36:45
right reason. Everything I can tell, everybody appears done. A lot of behind the scenes work on all these projects that were 01:36:52
presented today. So very proud to be part of the team. And with that, I'll look for a motion to adjourn. Second, we're not 01:36:59
adjourned yet. What's that? OK. 01:37:06
Reconvene. 01:37:15
Need approval for. 01:37:18
6/25/24 Joint meeting minutes. 01:37:21
Link
Start video at
Social
Embed
* you need to log in to manage your favorites
My Favorites List
You haven't added any favorites yet. Click the "Add Favorite" button on any media page, and they'll show up here.
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Unable to preview the file.
The Council. 00:00:04
Friday, July 19, 2024 If you'll please silence your cell phones and you need to have a conversation, we've got the the hallway 00:00:06
you'll rise and join for the Pledge of Allegiance, please. 00:00:11
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:00:18
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:24
All right, thank everyone for being here. We have a busy agenda, but I am told that we have open-ended possession of the room 00:00:32
until about 4:00 PM this afternoon. So I'm joking. We won't be here that long, but we'll probably go a little bit after the 11:00 00:00:39
hour. Mr. Springle is not present, but he is on his way. I have two messages that indicates that. So we will go ahead and begin in 00:00:46
his absence. We do have an agenda before us. We're going to add. 00:00:53
To that presentation from Highlander Fire with regards to an update on. 00:01:01
1st. 00:01:06
I just have the high wind right here. Didn't see it, sorry. Thanks. So we'll hear from them towards the end of the meeting. The 00:01:10
agenda that was handed out had 12345. We're going to bring 5 up to #1 before our presentation from envoy. So I. 00:01:17
County Attorney Rick Fox is going to join us for those two items. I'm just going to give a brief recount of what this is about. We 00:01:27
kind of started a. 00:01:31
Oh, I don't know, called a tradition or whatever, but with the Commissioner Sharp had his Project Elvis, which was kind of a code 00:01:38
name for animal care and control. That was kind of not public at the time that we were doing it. And for the last four or five, 00:01:45
six months, we've been kicking around Project Runaround, which is what I'm going to unveil here right now, which is. 00:01:53
That the Commissioners of the Council jointly have been looking long and hard for space to fulfill some of our needs. 00:02:01
Everyone in the county knows that the former City County building. 00:02:11
Is in absolute need of repair. We're here at length about that from our owners, representatives, the Envoy group momentarily on 00:02:16
that. 00:02:20
But we have identified a piece of real estate, beautiful piece of real estate that we're going to pursue the purchase of. So 00:02:25
project runaround was about 120 W Spring Street, which is the Chase building, the Chase building and the parking lot behind it, 00:02:31
the Circle K. So just a brief summary. We're going to get into details on this down the road. The reason I bring this up at this 00:02:38
moment is that during the Envoy presentation, you're going to hear reference to the Annex over and over again. And the Annex is 00:02:44
the Chase Building. 00:02:51
22,176 square feet, four floors. There are current tenants within the building. It is our intent to honor those leases and have 00:02:58
those burned out gradually over the next few years we'll be getting some revenue from the tenants on that that we intend to put 00:03:07
into a non recurring fund for building maintenance. 45 current parking spaces as compared to the 27th we currently have at the. 00:03:17
County building with the. 00:03:27
Capability of increasing that to 70 parking spaces downtown if we were to ever remove the drive through banking corridor. Of 00:03:31
course all these plans are are in motion. I mean there might be utility having that drive through for tax payment purposes and 00:03:38
things like that down the road. The purchase price agreed upon is $8,650,000. 00:03:46
We're estimating somewhere between $500 million for remodeling on that as well. The primary funding on that's going to be through 00:03:54
the cumulative capital development tax that was imposed last year. So we feel like there's a real good fit with the parts of the 00:04:00
revenue that we have coming in on that. So we're not anticipating the need for any tax increase to pay for this building. We also 00:04:06
have some leftover American Relief Program Act that we're going to put towards the initial payment on that. So we would 00:04:12
anticipate. 00:04:19
Signing the contract on that momentarily. 00:04:26
And later this year, handing out details for transition occupancy, which will begin as early as 2025 for some of the office space 00:04:29
and as late as perhaps 20312032 on the 1st floor for the Chase building if they execute their option for renewal on the lease. But 00:04:36
again, in the meantime, we're going to be capturing rent revenue off of that. 00:04:44
So we'll be around to answer questions on that after the meeting. Right now want to be ripped up for? 00:04:52
5A and 5B. 00:05:00
Thank you with regards to the contract. 00:05:05
As you indicated, $8,650,000 that is subject to us obtaining the bond financing to. 00:05:10
Get the sale approved. Obviously, we have to have the financing in order to purchase the building. This contract's been reviewed 00:05:22
by Barnes and Thornburg. Steve Langdon on behalf of the County Council and myself. 00:05:30
And so it's a 21 page agreement and. 00:05:40
We would be here to 4:00 if. 00:05:45
We went through all the terms of the agreement. 00:05:48
I will tell you the legal counsel has approved it and we've been through it in detail with regards to the terms and we're looking 00:05:52
for approval by the commissioners. 00:05:57
OK. And so at this moment again, the Commissioners meeting within this joint meeting are asked to consider that one thing I didn't 00:06:03
mention, I'm sure. 00:06:07
Mine is what are you going to move over there? And it's going to be basically a move of the taxes minus the clerk's office. 00:06:11
So the idea is that, and again, I don't wanna steal they all Thunder, but we're gonna be talking about expansion of the courts 00:06:19
over the next decade. And so trying to empty out as much space from the building that we've had as it goes under information 00:06:25
replacement. 00:06:30
So down the road we'll be having the. 00:06:37
Everybody but you ought to be the recording, the auditor, or the treasure. 00:06:43
The assessor's office and other folks that we'd be bringing in there. 00:06:45
So. 00:06:49
I do have just I'm sure it's going to be asked as far as the where appraisals done on the property. 00:06:51
How there was this price established our appraisals going to be needed for this property that. 00:06:58
I know it's going to be asked. 00:07:02
Appraisals were obtained on the property and. 00:07:04
There the top appraisal was. 00:07:10
8,650,000 The other appraisal was below that. 00:07:14
Statutorily, in terms of the Commissioners, umm. 00:07:21
You're looking at a statute that would require the average of the two appraisals in terms of the financing, how this is being set 00:07:26
up. We've set it up with a building corporation. That corporation has already been set up and I have the statement here for you to 00:07:32
approve here in just a minute. 00:07:38
And so the corporation is the one purchasing the building. And so therefore they're not bound by the average of the two 00:07:46
appraisals. And so this is what was needed in order to purchase the building. 00:07:54
8,000,525 they were not very far off. The other one, the lower one was 8,000,400 and something so. 00:08:03
We get the exact numbers. 00:08:15
Building corporation. I don't remember the low and I know it was very close. 00:08:17
That's fine. 00:08:26
All right, so if there are no. 00:08:28
For the discussion on that, I'll look for a motion to approve. 00:08:31
Signage of desk contractors that was in the contract. 00:08:35
So moved. 00:08:38
Second, all in favor? 00:08:39
All righty. And as a follow up on the building corporation that was set up, I have. 00:08:43
A bill here from the state of Indiana for $94.00 that I need you all to approve if you would. And then I'll pass this on to 00:08:50
Susanna who will prepare the warrant, send it on to our auditor for payment, and we'll take care of the state. Motion to approve. 00:08:58
And I'll second, OK, Again, that's 94 dollars, 94.00, correct? That is correct. All in favor. 00:09:06
And the last item I have is a contract from Stifel. 00:09:17
And Stifle is the company that will be marketing the bonds. And so it's a standard contract that all the bonds that we've had 00:09:21
issued in the past. 00:09:26
So asking for your approval there. 00:09:33
Motion to approve. I'll second. Motion to second, All in favor. 00:09:37
Aye, and I'll get your signatures after the meeting. 00:09:41
And Ricky mentioned about forming the building Corporation. Is that part, that part of what we just approved or is that a 00:09:46
separate? 00:09:49
OK, Yeah. 00:09:54
That's good. The deal. 00:09:55
Thank you. 00:10:00
All right. So we'll move on to our presentation from Envoy. Again, part of the process has been hiring a building representative. 00:10:02
Again, that's going to pay for our CCD funds that we have. 00:10:08
Implemented last year, coming in this year as well and. 00:10:16
We were not quite daily with Dale, but at least every other week we all get together at least a couple times. We. 00:10:20
I have a discussion so the presentation we have today, all the members up here did get a printed out copy of this as well. 00:10:28
Can I make one of those available to the process of logic worse? 00:10:36
That further take place. 00:10:41
Thank you. I'm excited to be here today. Last time we were before you, we were starting to ask the questions about what can we do 00:10:43
to move this building forward. Thinking about three options. Do we keep the building and completely rehab it? Do we look at a 00:10:51
partial rehab or do we look at a new build? So that's the lens we've been looking at as we've started to evaluate this building 00:10:58
and I'm excited to see we're already making steps forward with the with the annex as we go through. 00:11:06
Go through this presentation, a lot of that will start to make sense of how these these pieces can fit together. I will give the 00:11:14
caveat that anything in this presentation is not fine. This is very schematic, but it goes to prove the point of where we're at 00:11:21
and hope and help us to make decisions going going forward. 00:11:28
You know, last time we talked, we also talked about what about structure of the building, what about the environmental 00:11:36
considerations, asbestos, lead paint. 00:11:40
All the things we might want to think about, we're going to run through some of that here today too, just so you can see the depth 00:11:44
we've gone into to understand this building, understand what we need to do. So here's a quick agenda of what we'll run through, 00:11:50
and I'm going to turn this over to Brittany to talk through. 00:11:55
Some of our home. 00:12:02
Thank you, Dale. 00:12:07
As now mentioned, this has been a joint effort with multiple. 00:12:09
Hands involved Envoy that Dale and I are here for. We are owners, representatives. We're also here today with Michelle Allen 00:12:13
Reese, which has been the architect throughout this process. S and ME did the asbestos and LED study. We had Ameresco come in that 00:12:20
evaluated the mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems also referred to throughout the presentation as MEP. And then KPFF came 00:12:27
in and did a simple analysis of the current judicial center. 00:12:33
This has been a long ongoing process. As Dale mentioned, we've taken a look at all of the analysis that were performed. We have 00:12:42
met along with Michelle Allen Reitz to go through and interview a different department and and get their voice and opinions heard 00:12:48
for what they need as far as space. What they're looking at is for anticipation of growth. We've taken all of this information 00:12:54
that we received through the different reports and analysis that were performed and compiled this presentation in today that you 00:13:00
will be receiving. 00:13:06
As Dale also mentioned, we did take a look through the lens of three options. 00:13:13
As going through with this presentation with that being a partial remodel, a complete rehabilitation of the current building and 00:13:17
then a new construction building. 00:13:20
I'm going to walk through some of the findings and assumptions that we have for the asbestos and lead study, the structural 00:13:29
analysis. 00:13:32
The review of the mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems and then I'm going to hand it over to Angie who is going to go 00:13:35
through the space cleaning analysis and deal will kind of wrap up with the overall conclusion of what we have for our lien costs 00:13:40
and go through our three options. 00:13:44
First, I would like to discuss the finding the assumptions that we have for the asbestos and lead study as an. 00:13:51
And get taken care of. It's another thing that they found was lead based paint. A lot of this was in downstairs in the metal cage 00:14:33
and the maintenance offices. There was also an other paint throughout the building. You can see the metal Cafe and maintenance 00:14:40
office is one of them. In the basement throughout the building there's different tiles that also came up for having lead paint. 00:14:47
They also found other materials that were located as you can see on here, that were classified as just other regulated materials 00:14:55
and universal waste throughout the building. 00:14:59
Here are some images you can see that they included in their analysis. There were some issues of asbestos. You can see the floor 00:15:07
tiles. There was some. 00:15:11
Areas that we're concerned down in the basement, you can see where they took samples from some of the ceilings and you can see the 00:15:15
wood panelings that are located throughout the buildings where they did find that asbestos that. 00:15:20
The next thing I have is the structural analysis. KPFS came through and did a structural analysis of the whole building. 00:15:30
As well as they also looked at the current Indiana building code for existing structures, they indicated where there were some 00:15:37
that there were some standards that were not currently being met according to the ending in a building code for new structures. 00:15:43
What they found the biggest issues with the structure was mainly the 1st floor. There's a lots of slab cracking as well as water 00:15:50
infiltration because of the slab cracking on the first floors. 00:15:55
Also the entryways is where you can see that this is present of a lot of the water infiltration coming into the first floors as 00:16:01
well as the slab cracking. There's also some of the the stairwells that you can see that there's cracking because of movement and 00:16:06
shifts in the building just due to age. 00:16:11
There were some exterior issues as well, concrete falling on the canopy. Some of there was issues to some of the curtain wall 00:16:17
along the exterior of the building. 00:16:22
Here is a list of just a couple of the items that they touched. Based on that, we're not meeting code requirement due to the for 00:16:29
the 2014 Indiana building code. 00:16:33
KPF put together a list here that you can see the recommendations are color-coded based on current hazard levels. Items in wet red 00:16:42
are recommended to be addressed immediately. Items in yellow or future, and then items in green are the least areas of of needing 00:16:48
remediation right now. 00:16:54
The high things that they touched on were the paneling on the curtain wall. They said future panels could fall into the sidewalk 00:17:01
endangering public safety. They recommend replacing panels. The other big thing that I had mentioned and touched on was the 00:17:06
cracking on the 1st floor vegetables and cracks on the 1st floor where you having water infiltration come in, mainly at the 00:17:12
entrance points. 00:17:17
Here are some images that you can see. The 1st is kind of in the lower left hand corner is where you can see some deterioration 00:17:25
around the main entrance. Then you can see cracking that we have along the entrances that also as we're having water infiltration 00:17:31
come in as well as getting into the basement. 00:17:36
Then that middle image there is some cracking that we have interior close to the elevator on the 1st floor. 00:17:42
After that you can see cracking on the stairwell where it's going through the structure and then you can see on the last image is 00:17:49
where there's some cracks that are located on some of the ceilings. 00:17:54
Here is an example of where you can see how that kind of structural repair takes place. Just so a good visualization, this is the 00:18:01
closest thing that we could find of what they would do for that building. This is some structural repair on a on a garage where 00:18:08
you can see where they actually will cut sections of the structure out and work to replace it. 00:18:15
Ameresco came in and they did an analysis of the mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems. 00:18:26
The big thing that they found here when they did it, we know that HVAC, the HVAC system is something that they heavily looked at 00:18:34
when they presented theirs. We kind of broke theirs up a little bit differently and we presented theirs as going through with the 00:18:41
three options with a partial remodel, a complete rehabilitation and then a new build and looking at the partial remodel. 00:18:48
They would have to go back in a little bit more and assess to see what could be salvage as far as the current air system. 00:18:57
Go back in for electrical and see what else can be, what can be salvage and what cannot. But we know do know from their analysis 00:19:06
that the HVAC is is not in good shape. 00:19:10
Here's their assumptions that they made as well for partial remodel, complete rehabilitation, a complete rehabilitation, part of 00:19:17
it will be phase occupancy. This could be difficult, but it would be possible because they're having to go through the building 00:19:24
and look at these systems and replacing some of it would be difficult to be able to display some of the offices. 00:19:31
Here you can see we broke out. Here just some of the MEP costs. 00:19:41
This is going to also be included in the final cost that Dale is going to touch over, but you can see what it would cost just to 00:19:46
have a partial remodel, the complete rehabilitation and the new build for some of the systems. One of this that we are looking at 00:19:53
where you can see it says jail is listed on here. We do know that we would have to have some replacement with the jail, the 00:19:59
chiller as well as the boiler. So that's where you see some of that cost is right now. Some of those items are being shared. 00:20:06
And then included in this is the additional cost for the phase occupancy for that work. And I do also want to note that on top of 00:20:13
that, they do have a 20% premium for Facebook. 00:20:18
I'll go ahead right now and brings over to Angie Michelle Allen Reeds to go over the space morning. 00:20:26
Good morning. I'm Angie clear with Michelle Elements here in New Albany and. 00:20:36
Wanted to share with you a little bit about the space planning analysis that we were grateful to have the opportunity to be a part 00:20:43
of. 00:20:46
We've got a lot of historical knowledge, but we tried to approach this objectively and. 00:20:50
Talk to each department and assess what their current usage is in the building and then what their current are there. 00:20:57
They have current needs on top of how they're using it, and then also they haven't. 00:21:06
Future needs that need to be addressed as well as anticipated growth. So there's a series of. 00:21:10
Ways to look at this and. 00:21:17
We were tasked with. 00:21:19
Thinking about this in a way so that it would fit into the three categories and. 00:21:23
Our first step was assessing the current space usage and. 00:21:28
We. 00:21:33
Had to take the square footage, which is very simple to do and talk about. We need the these many more desks. We have this much 00:21:35
growth that would happen if a future court would occur, things like that. 00:21:41
What is not so easily quantifiable is the. 00:21:47
The common non tangible elements such as space, function and. 00:21:51
Within the departments between each other, such things as security, you know, within the site, the building and each court and 00:21:57
associated offices, separating the public, the inmates, the judicial circulation and the holding and waiting space for all of 00:22:04
those departments. The efficient use of these spaces. 00:22:11
The hearing rooms and then the privacy required for fair trials and efficient and. 00:22:20
There on each side so that. 00:22:26
The judges have what they need, and then the public has what they need. 00:22:34
So that was a little bit harder to quantify some of those things and that's where you'll see some of the differences in. 00:22:38
Percentages of. 00:22:45
Circulation and extra space that needs to be accounted for. The building that we have right now is very high in circulation 00:22:48
percentage. 00:22:52
And. 00:22:57
Such things as bathrooms and restrooms. 00:22:59
Hallways. 00:23:04
The mechanical spaces, all of those things are at like a 25% usage factor on the on this building that we have right now due to 00:23:06
the layout of the space and the confines of the the existing walls. If we would go to a new space that can be handled differently 00:23:13
in a much more efficient way, we can arrange things. 00:23:20
To handle it. 00:23:28
The building can be renovated and it can be improved quite a bit. It's just that these things are hard to quantify on a square 00:23:31
foot basis and we were asked to do that to be able to plug some of that into. 00:23:37
So that you have three options that can be compared. So it's quite. 00:23:44
Complex. Even though it looks very simple, when you say existing square footage and future square footage needs, there's a lot 00:23:48
that's not in writing there. 00:23:52
So if there's any questions, I'll be glad to address those separately or one-on-one if you have any. I'm not going to take you 00:23:57
through and read out all of these square footages, but what you'll see is the partial remodel addresses quite a bit less square 00:24:05
footage in order to be able to utilize that same building without the. 00:24:13
Complete overhaul of the building itself. 00:24:23
We would have less rate. Well, they'll get into that on the next stage there's we have a list of items that apply so. 00:24:27
Right here we have partial remodel in the. 00:24:36
26,000 square footage, the complete rehab at 66,000 square footage and the new building at 84. 00:24:38
1000 but then if we take out the annex, that's just been discussed. 00:24:46
Down to 62, so it's much more comparable because we can take out the spaces that are. 00:24:50
Non judicial. 00:24:55
That don't have to be in the same building. 00:24:57
Thank you, Angie. So what does this mean to everyone? Well, let's start talking about how these options compare and where we where 00:25:09
this takes us from here. 00:25:13
So if we look at a partial remodel, when we're looking at that, we're thinking about the space that's vacated by the departments 00:25:18
that would be moving across to the annex and how those faith and also the space that was vacated by the city and how that all 00:25:24
would be remodeled as part of this. And then adding on top of that the entryways that would need to be remodeled to the the main 00:25:30
entrance there and also the smaller entrance to the north to address that slab cracking issue. So that's where the partial remodel 00:25:36
takes us. 00:25:43
There is a definite amount of fluidity and how much a remodel would go on with that. If there is more space that's desired to be 00:25:50
looked at, we can certainly do that. 00:25:55
If the budget requires us to look at less space, we can look at that too. This by the program of who's moving out seem to make the 00:26:01
most sense. 00:26:06
So in a partial model, you get to retain your directors or prisoner transport between the jail and and this building. You don't 00:26:11
have to use vans, you don't have to use the passport facility, you can. 00:26:18
And keep it internal. That is a huge benefit. 00:26:26
We get to reuse the historic building. 00:26:29
And. 00:26:32
And keep it operable for for years to come. The construction cost is is lower. That's primarily due to the fact that we're 00:26:34
controlling our scope. There's just less square footage in this, so there's less cost. 00:26:40
It will have a long construction duration. This will be the most complicated option. There's lots of moving pieces because we 00:26:49
won't be touching the whole building. 00:26:53
The judicial staff will have to move multiple times. 00:26:59
When the 1st floor is being renovated, I don't necessarily see a path to this building being operable. 00:27:04
It's going to be loud. Courts should not be operating when they're jackhammering on the 1st floor. 00:27:10
Let alone if they could, we could even figure out a way to get them up to the courts with with that operation going on because 00:27:18
that damage is right in front of the elevators. 00:27:22
The other things to to think through, we will need to look at temporary space then because we will have to vacate for a while. 00:27:30
Your temporary space need is less in the partial remodel because we're just not going to have as long of a overall duration, but 00:27:37
it is it would be pretty disruptive to the courts. So we'll need to make sure we find them good accommodations. The other part is 00:27:44
this would become a phased project, the parts of the building that wouldn't necessarily be renovated. 00:27:51
They will likely need to be a subsequent project down the road. 00:27:58
But that said, we are looking at upgrading that mechanical electrical plumbing to to at least get that addressed, get the fresh 00:28:03
air addressed, get the air handlers addressed. It also includes remediation for. 00:28:09
The the basic needs of the asbestos. 00:28:17
Some things like the asbestos tile. 00:28:21
If we're not renovating an area, we really don't have to move it because we're not disturbing it, but a complete rehab as I'm 00:28:23
talking about here. 00:28:27
We have to abate everything. We have to get rid of all the asbestos tile. We have to get rid of all the asbestos and the. 00:28:32
And the HVAC system, we have to worry about the lead paint and the curtain wall. 00:28:39
Again, with that complete rehab, you get to retain your direct prisoner transport you get to. 00:28:44
You get to have the space for the crooks to grow. I mean, as you solve the space analysis in either the partial rehab, the 00:28:54
complete rehab or the new build. The annex allows us to have the space for growth. 00:29:00
Which allows this building to to meet our current need and our our future need. 00:29:07
So then we talked about a new build. A new build is where you have the most cost control because we can completely control the 00:29:15
scope. 00:29:19
Temporary workspaces wouldn't be needed. There would be an acknowledgement of there might be some some temporary pain with the 00:29:25
current building because over the next I'd say two years that would take to get a new building designed and built. 00:29:34
Something might break and we'll have to address that because we would not be going on a. 00:29:43
Proactive basis. At that point we just be using the building until something is ready. 00:29:48
Your construction duration would be shorter so long as we have land to use. Land acquisition could delay things, but if we have 00:29:54
land to use then this is the fastest path forward. 00:29:59
Your move management would be the simplest. You one day are in this building, the next day you are in the other building. 00:30:07
The thing we really want to consider with this is this building and the jail are completely intertwined. They share HVAC systems, 00:30:14
they share power system, they share a lot. So and there's a lot of upgrades needed there even in the base scenario. So we've we've 00:30:20
accounted for all of that. 00:30:26
Today, I'll just before you go for that search, I like to think of these two buildings assigning twins kind of connected at the 00:30:32
heart, yes. So that last bullet point when you say separate, what actually conceptually look like at the end of the day, would it 00:30:39
be a block house where the current city county building is? And then yes, if we were to do a new build and it was not on this 00:30:46
site, if you would pick a different site. 00:30:52
We would have to do something with the central plant. There's if you look at the horseshoe of how the jail and the city county 00:31:00
building are hooked together, in the middle there where the drive goes back is a central plan. 00:31:07
We would have to change out some equipment and right size it to this building because for example, the children, if we take away 00:31:13
the city county building, that shoulder is dramatically oversized for your needs. That's why on the slides that Brittany was 00:31:19
presenting, there was $100,000 delta on the equipment because we can get a smaller chiller. 00:31:26
But the the flip side you'll see when we go through here is then you'll have an open wall to the side of the jail and you'll have 00:31:34
a big hole. 00:31:37
So we have to fill that hole, we have to stabilize the site and we have to sure up the side into the jail so that it is enclosed, 00:31:42
inoperable. 00:31:46
So disclaimer, any of the numbers that I'm showing you, they're, they're very fluid. 00:31:54
They truly are, but we have to draw a line and where our analysis is now so we can pick a path forward. 00:31:59
A lot of these costs can be controlled through scope, through square footage, but to make an educated decision on how to move 00:32:06
forward, this is this is where our analysis is taking us. So partial remodel all, all of our options have the same table. So you 00:32:12
can see apples to apples what we're what we're considering. 00:32:19
Construction cost, soft cost, so that ends up being your contingency, developer fees, things of that nature, temporary housing. 00:32:27
That's finding a building, building it out to house the courts and support staff. 00:32:37
Our estimate doesn't contemplate all of the staff in that number, so we would have to find where we've got space for them. If 00:32:43
there's space in this building, if there's space we can free up in the annex faster, we have to consider that. 00:32:50
We've included the abatement, we've included the structural repair. 00:32:59
We've also included the the jail MEP remodel. 00:33:05
To a total of just over $18 million. 00:33:10
Now go to a complete rehab. 00:33:14
This is essentially gutting the building down to the concrete decks. This is a concrete building with. 00:33:18
Basically just concrete floors or posts. 00:33:29
This would take it down to that and build it back. 00:33:31
All new electrical, all new plumbing, all new all new all new everything. New curtain wall. 00:33:34
Brand new building, just reusing the structure that's underneath. 00:33:40
We'd still fix the structure, we'd fix, you know what's going on the 1st floor with. In either of these scenarios, we look at 00:33:44
adding capacity to make this building better for the long term. At elevators that you know are appropriately sized. Add lobby 00:33:51
space so people waiting for court actually have a place to wait instead of in the hallway. 00:33:58
Either of these scenarios, look at. Look at that. 00:34:06
This comes to a total of 33,600,000. There's some room on this one to move, but not a lot of. 00:34:09
And that's just the nature of the nature of it. If we take that building down to its structure, it's going to take a lot to put it 00:34:19
back. 00:34:23
There is a note on here too. It doesn't include the seismic retrofit. One of the things KPF identified in their chart was the 00:34:29
building does not meet the current structural requirements of seismic design. 00:34:35
I'm not trying to say your buildings unsafe. 00:34:43
I'm not trying to say that at all, but your building was designed in 1959 and built in 1960. It was not built to today's 00:34:45
standards. 00:34:48
So that is something that I want to put out there just for Full disclosure. 00:34:53
By code, you don't have to do anything about it, it's not a requirement. 00:34:57
But if seismic is of concern. 00:35:00
I would steer you towards a new build because the seismic retrofit could be in the 10s of millions of dollars. 00:35:05
And that would just destroy any budget for reuse of the facility. 00:35:11
So then a new build, you'll notice that there is a. 00:35:19
About a 10% cost premium to get a new build keeping the same square footage. As Angie mentioned, in a new scenario we could get 00:35:22
more efficient with our space. So we could get that store footage number down some. And if that number was was too much, we've got 00:35:29
more flexibility to drive it down because we can look at what's our program. 00:35:36
But apples to apples, this is our new build number. Now, there's some things you don't have to worry about in this situation. We 00:35:44
don't have to worry about temporary housing. 00:35:48
The abatement actually becomes a lot simpler because we don't. 00:35:54
There's friable and non friable when it comes to asbestos. 00:35:58
So we only have to worry about the friable when it comes to don't full demolition. 00:36:02
The stuff that's adhered in place and is not going to go airborne. 00:36:07
We don't necessarily have to abate the same way, so long as we're sending it to a certified landfill. 00:36:11
Most of the people that would demo a building like this use a certified landfill to begin with, so it's not really a concern. 00:36:18
So there are some other costs we didn't factor into the muddy the water a little bit. 00:36:26
Fixtures, furniture and equipment. So desks, TV's, office furniture. Usually in a build like this, people would want to upgrade 00:36:31
that. We didn't include it because that just made the water kind of kind of muddy. It's certainly something we can look at, but 00:36:37
not for this, this conversation. Same thing with information technology, access controls. That's a whole whole other concept we 00:36:44
can talk about once we make a decision on on how we want to approach this book. We all still include site acquisition. I know the 00:36:50
county has property. 00:36:57
Maybe we want to use it, maybe we don't. 00:37:05
We could look at a different site, but that would increase the cost of the new poll option. 00:37:07
So just some. 00:37:12
Top level considerations, partial remodel at your lowest upfront cost, but you're gonna have to plan for the future on that one. 00:37:13
Complete rehab. It is slightly less expensive than a new build, but. 00:37:21
There's a lot of. 00:37:26
Intricacies there to making that work. 00:37:28
In terms of moving people around and just making all the move management work. 00:37:31
And then a new build. Logistically it is the easiest, but. 00:37:36
That is, is not inexpensive as well. 00:37:41
So and. 00:37:46
Commissioners asked me to to provide an update of what we what we've spent so far out of the. 00:37:48
Out of the revenue we have available. 00:37:55
And that's that's the sum total. 00:37:57
$287,500. 00:38:00
Beyond that, after we move to the next phase, once we decide on a path forward, we'll want to engage a site civil designer, which 00:38:04
we've we've got estimated in there and. 00:38:10
We'll also want to further engage. 00:38:18
Ameresco to. 00:38:21
OK, we've got a path. Let's figure out this this mechanical electrical plumbing to the teeth so we understand what we're getting 00:38:23
into. 00:38:26
So the path forward of. 00:38:32
Here we're looking to you all to understand. 00:38:34
What you're thinking, What's our next step? 00:38:40
Which scenario makes the most sense for the? 00:38:43
So the county, what budget makes the most sense for the county, even if the direction is maybe like this path, please work with 00:38:46
our financial counselor to to understand what the capability is wonderful. That is the step we want to take. We've come to a kind 00:38:53
of a decision point. So we open it up to to you all to make it. 00:38:59
So thank you. Thank you for all your work today. That last slide was at our request so that. 00:39:08
Taxpayers should see where that CCD money has gone in the year 2024. 00:39:15
Having had a preview of this, knowing there might be a little bit of sticker shock. 00:39:20
Glad that Brad had EMS personnel saying anybody today just in case we might need that. 00:39:25
All kidding aside, I mean, I think at this point we have the information that we need. 00:39:32
As a body. 00:39:37
Commissioners and council jointly and everybody in this room has a stake, everybody in this county has a stake. So I think we have 00:39:39
the information that we need to make a decision with regards to how we're going to progress from here. And again, I'd like to have 00:39:44
that those conversations both individually and the public meetings and. 00:39:50
Have somebody hammered out by the time the leaves are. 00:39:56
Turning on the trees this year and see which way we're going to go with it. One final thing I wanted to articulate because we 00:39:58
discussed it before under each of these three scenarios. 00:40:03
The purchase of the annex made sense because it considerably reduced the cost of each of those correct potential options. By 00:40:09
bringing the annex online, it made the square footage of this building makes sense. 00:40:15
Otherwise, we have been looking at a larger new build or some sort of addition to this building. 00:40:22
Which I know have been explored before And then we'd end up with two kind of narrow buildings parallel to each other. The annex 00:40:31
solved a lot of pieces for us and each under each scenario, the cost of that annex work footage was considerably below partial 00:40:37
rehab, total rehab and new construction costs. So. 00:40:44
Anyway. 00:40:51
My comment is just, you know, I charge everybody here, everybody in the county, think about, let us know your thoughts. We need 00:40:53
that decision to move forward on it. 00:40:57
I do have questions. 00:41:02
On the slide, new build under the comparison options. 00:41:04
There is under temporary housing. You guys have nothing there. 00:41:09
Is that because that building would be on a different site? Because that was the assumption, correct, that we would build a new 00:41:14
build on a different site? If we wanted to reuse the current site, then yes, we would have to look at temporary housing under that 00:41:19
scenario as well. 00:41:24
OK, that's gonna be my question. Is it possible to? 00:41:30
Do a new build on the same site to bring that temporary housing back into the discussion and the temporary number we gave is based 00:41:34
on just average market rates down here with a three-year duration and a tenant build out a. 00:41:43
If their space is available that we can use that are. 00:41:53
Under county control or you know someone. 00:41:58
That wants to partner with the county that can help us out. 00:42:02
That number can go down a lot. 00:42:05
I didn't want to present you a number that was low. 00:42:08
But also, we're not pretty. 00:42:11
Numbers that are unrealistically high. Trying trying to trying to strike that that balance of just giving you some some real 00:42:13
thought, real input here. 00:42:18
I think maybe that is another. 00:42:23
I don't know, maybe a 3A where we need to understand the demo cost. 00:42:26
Of that and what it would take to whatever it would take to build on that side demo cost and temporary household is that something 00:42:32
you can put together like a three Eddy within the presentation we've got the demo cost on this option we've got the temporary 00:42:40
housing in this option so yeah we also the demo cost is already in there got you but the only so the only thing not in here is the 00:42:49
temporary house right these options are meant to be holistic views so this option taking this would take the. 00:42:57
Current building down to the ground. 00:43:07
Turn basically turn the site to seat and straw, just green space and stabilize that wall on the side of the the jail so they're 00:43:10
not just left with a exposed side of the jail. 00:43:16
I have a request I. 00:43:26
Do you have a longevity for each of these options? If we do a partial, it's going to last 10 years complete and a new build. 00:43:30
So a new building. 00:43:38
I mean depending on how we want to build it. 00:43:41
It's easy to say you've got 20-30 years of life before you're starting to think about upgrades. The structure itself, I mean. 00:43:43
I'd say it'd probably be built out of steel in the last. 00:43:52
Quite a while, but usually that 20 or 30 year windows when your mechanical systems start to start to fail and we'll start to have 00:43:55
some real repair costs. Again, we don't have any systems picked or designed. So there's decisions that can be made that swing that 00:44:03
one way or another a little bit, but just off the cuff and on a partial and a complete remnant remodel. 00:44:11
It depends how much we want to put into the mechanical systems. 00:44:20
The number that we looked at has all of like. 00:44:25
Direct replacement of the systems, so the actual units themselves we should still be looking at a similar longevity. 00:44:30
But we're not reducting it, we're not replumbing it, we're not rewiring it unless we have to. So those types of systems would not 00:44:39
have that long. 00:44:44
Right, OK. 00:44:49
Another another question for you under these scenarios that you have listed. 00:44:50
What has the most impact to the judicial courts and system and what has the least impact? I think you covered it, but I just want 00:44:55
to make sure I understood. Functionally the least impact would be a new build on a different site. 00:45:01
They can keep operating in their current capacity and their current building, and then one day they. 00:45:08
Move to the to the new courts. 00:45:13
Most impactful would be the gut rehab option. It's just it's going to be the longest time that they're out of the courts. 00:45:16
The partial falls in between. It depends how much we want to spend on the corporate force I. 00:45:25
And we'll want to work closely with the judiciary because. 00:45:32
Courthouses I've worked on, the annexes I've worked on, we've got to be really sensitive to the course and their trial load 00:45:37
because we don't want to do anything that would give them 'cause for a mistrial. 00:45:42
Any noise, any movement, we don't want to do anything to district them. 00:45:48
Although in the long run. 00:45:53
A new site would require transportation to be an ongoing right. So I was going to, I was going to ask you, Mr. Kneel, is there any 00:45:55
appetite from either one of these bodies to build a building off site? 00:46:02
I thought, I thought we were pretty much on the same page that this is we want to stay down. 00:46:10
At that. So I think if doable, people want to stay downtown, myself included. But we thought it would be proved. Sure, all options 00:46:15
understood. Just making a fresh look at it. 00:46:20
Yeah, No, I didn't. 00:46:25
Even have transportation from the jail across. 00:46:28
The shorter the better. That's the only thing that's actually missing here is. 00:46:34
I guess you would have to add somewhere between 3:00 and 4:00 and a half, $1,000,000 to the temporary housing for a new building 00:46:40
on the same footprint, if you will, on the same property. That's I think he wants to stay in the same footprint, yes. OK, Yeah, 00:46:46
'cause I just. 00:46:51
Didn't know if there was any appetite to say hey, we're going to move it because I didn't think we were there. 00:46:57
Thank you. And again trying to take the the site cost out of the out of the equation because that really could move the needle for 00:47:01
us. 00:47:06
A lot, one way or another. 00:47:12
And we don't have a necessarily a spot that we would want to put it. 00:47:15
So trying to take this really complex animal down to. 00:47:19
These three slides. 00:47:25
I noticed in the cork space that that increased by 50% and it looks like that's there's no options to this. So what was that based 00:47:29
on and how much timeline does that give us for the courts with this forecast? 00:47:37
Angie, correct me if I'm wrong, that we were looking at a 20 year horizon when we talked to the courts. 00:47:45
So the idea was to build out an extra. 00:47:52
Court space and to give it adequate space for the support staff as well. 00:47:56
Currently, the support staff and the jury rooms and the break rooms, it all kind of blends together and functionally it's really 00:48:04
difficult. So yeah, some of those spaces got quite a bit larger square footage walls. So they all. 00:48:12
Function similar to our biggest 4th. So it will just work better for the for the judiciary overall, but it does give us time to 00:48:21
expand the court. It does give us room to. 00:48:26
Add the smaller. 00:48:32
Kind of trial courts, not the full jury courts, but just kind of the hearing room type courts. It does give us room to add those 00:48:35
as well. 00:48:38
Does this include moving what you call the auxiliary court services the. 00:48:45
Adult probation. Juvenile. 00:48:50
Community corrections down to the city County building. Is this Is that part of the plan ancient? 00:48:53
You are. 00:49:00
OK. 00:49:03
Yeah, the if we didn't do, then yes, we got the space for that. 00:49:07
Partial OK. 00:49:10
The partial as well as even the complete renovation. 00:49:13
Complete renovation? Does that make room? 00:49:17
Only with a new build. 00:49:20
OK. 00:49:22
And that comes back to some of the space savings we get with a new footprint. Our current footprint is long and skinny, which 00:49:23
means we just have a lot of circulation space that eats away at that eats away at that building. In a new scenario, we could 00:49:30
potentially be a little bit more efficient with our our floor plan. 00:49:36
Would you? 00:49:48
When you. 00:49:49
Talk to the people at Rice Building. 00:49:51
What's the feel for that building? Was there any kind of cost estimate to maybe bring that up to any kind of standards or any 00:49:57
renovation or? 00:50:01
Was that was that part of the equation? 00:50:07
A lot of. 00:50:16
Very good information. So my recommendation is we all go home and read through this three times. Sleep on it. 00:50:17
We will workshop at some point in the Republican but. 00:50:25
Both formally and formally and will continue to work with you in an interim on fine tuning options. 00:50:30
As we get information, feedbacks, market issues. 00:50:37
And if you have any thoughts after this meeting. 00:50:42
Please feel free to reach out and I'm happy to happy to discuss any of the any of the options. 00:50:46
Just one quick comment. 00:50:53
The construction cost on the. 00:50:55
New build and, and the other scenarios that is based on after you talk to all of the office holders, department heads and 00:50:59
everybody else you came together, you put that together, did you talk to like the needs assessment? That's how you got to that 00:51:05
number the construction cost is based on. 00:51:11